[opensource-dev] Brown-bag meeting to continue dialog on TVPV

lists.secondlife.com at trap.wereanimal.net lists.secondlife.com at trap.wereanimal.net
Fri Apr 9 15:43:51 PDT 2010


On Friday 09 April 2010 11:49:48 am Joe Miller wrote:
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> No apology necessary.&nbsp; I just wanted to restate that if TPV authors
> are staying away from this meeting because of some perceived "catch-22" on
> acceptance of the updated TOS, that shouldn't be an issue as they are
> governed by the TOS in effect prior to 3/31.<br>
> <br>
> Tateru Nino wrote:
> <blockquote cite="mid:4BBF4B70.6020108 at gmail.com" type="cite">
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> My apologies, Joe - I'll email you directly.<br>
>   <br>
> On 10/04/2010 1:28 AM, Joe Miller wrote:
>   <blockquote cite="mid:4BBF4785.6010808 at lindenlab.com" type="cite">
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> Tateru,<br>
>     <br>
> You can continue down this road if you wish, but the facts are the
> words in 13.3 do not become effective for Residents who had registered
> before March 31, 2010 until April 30 2010.&nbsp; (See the blog post <a
>  moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/03/31/upd
> ated-second-life-terms-of-service">here</a> with additional words to that
> effect.)&nbsp; The updated TOS text was pushed to everyone so they would
> have the benefit of a full 30 days to review it before acknowledging
> formal acceptance of it by accessing the system after April 30.&nbsp; <br>
>     <br>
> So, please, do not add to the rhetoric here by telling me about
> contract law, charges of fraud, coercion or whatever point you're
> trying to make.&nbsp; The TOS in force today was the agreement accepted by
> all Residents of record prior to March 31.&nbsp; After April 30, everything
> you say about section 13.3 in the new TOS is reasonably accurate.<br>
>     <br>
> The purpose of my brown bag is to talk about the new TPV policy and the
> concerns raised by several members of the open source community.&nbsp; I
> intend to listen to listen to all reasonable proposals to address those
> concerns.&nbsp; Those who do not wish to participate in that synchronous
> event can email me instead if they so choose.&nbsp;&nbsp; Again, I'm
> looking forward to a productive exchange of specific ideas to address
> specific shared concerns, whether at these meetings or via some other
> channel.<br> <br>
> If you have nothing to offer, there is no reason to come.<br>
>     <br>
> -- Joe<br>
>     <br>
>     <br>
> Tateru Nino wrote:
>     <blockquote cite="mid:4BBEC529.9010308 at gmail.com" type="cite">
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> That clear statement is inadmissible by the terms of the TOS &sect;13.3,
> I'm afraid, which disclaims such as not being a valid part of the
> agreement. No part of the agreement that is made admissible by &sect;13.3
> suggests or implies any commencement date other than immediately.<br>
>       <br>
> Nor does it permit any explanation, FAQ, supplement, or discussion to
> be considered relevant (except as provided, which none have been).
> Boilerplate it may be, but it is binding boilerplate. It could say that
> "This agreement grants you a lifetime supply of banana custard", but
> that's not actually in there. It would be an assurance that is
> disclaimed within the agreement. &sect;10.3 absolves the Lab and its
> representatives of charges of fraud if they say something about the
> agreements that aren't strictly speaking true, in order to obtain
> agreement.<br>
>       <br>
> As a general rule for contracts and agreements (leaving aside the TPVP,
> the TOS, and Linden Lab for a moment), it's widely considered remiss to
> act based on inadmissible representations or explanations of a contract
> from <i>the other party to the actual agreement</i>. That's the sort
> of thing lawyers warn you not to do.<br>
>       <br>
>       <br>
> On 9/04/2010 3:32 PM, Joe Linden wrote:
>       <blockquote
>  cite="mid:i2m6b9495c41004082232mc2320c1by1c03619be336fdbc at mail.gmail.com"
>  type="cite">Of course you can.&nbsp; The ToS presented at login clearly
> states it becomes effective on 4/30.&nbsp; In the meantime, you continue to
> use the service under the terms of the prior ToS which doesn't contain
> the TPV provisions.&nbsp; If one has issues with the prior ToS agreement,
> and hasn't previously accepted those terms, then I agree, this meeting
> isn't for you.<br>
>         <br>
> -- joe<br>
>         <br>
>         <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Boy
> Lane <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="mailto:boy.lane at yahoo.com">boy.lane at yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span>
> wrote:<br>
>         <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
>  style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
> 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks Joe.<br>
>           <br>
> Unfortunately one can not attend without going inworld and accepting<br>
> ToS/TPV in the first place.<br>
>           <br>
>           <br>
>           <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
>  style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
> 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">----- Original
> Message ----- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:24:57 -0700<br>
> From: Joe Linden &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="mailto:joe at lindenlab.com"
> target="_blank">joe at lindenlab.com</a>&gt;<br> Subject: [opensource-dev]
> Brown-bag meeting to continue dialog on TVPV<br> next Tuesday (4/13)<br>
> To: OpenSource-Dev &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="mailto:opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com"
> target="_blank">opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com</a>&gt;<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="mailto:v2k6b9495c41004081324ibd5ec762zb8d098a09c7f010f at mail.gmail.co
> m"
> target="_blank">v2k6b9495c41004081324ibd5ec762zb8d098a09c7f010f at mail.gmail
> .com</a>&gt;<br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
>             <br>
> Hello, all. &nbsp;I've been reading the ongoing commentary here, on
> various<br> blogs, irc, and in-world groups about the recently introduced
> Third Party<br>
> Viewer Policy and Directory and I'd like to host an "office hour" or<br>
> informal brown bag to make the conversation a little more synchronous
> for<br>
> those who are interested. &nbsp;I plan to hold three of these over the
> next<br> couple of weeks, at times that might be friendlier for some than
> others, but<br>
> the first one will happen next Tuesday, 4/13 at noon PDT. &nbsp;I'd like
> to<br> address questions about the intent of the policy, how we will be
> using the<br>
> Directory going forward, and see if I can gather the specific concerns
> that<br>
> have been raised by the community over the past several weeks. &nbsp;It'll
> be an<br>
> informal Q&amp;A session, held in voice, at this location:<br>
>             <br>
>             <a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229
> /230/29"
> target="_blank">http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Se
> rvices/229/230/29</a><br> <br>
> No RSVP needed, and feel free to rebroadcast the invite to others you
> think<br>
> would benefit from open dialog around the subject.<br>
>             <br>
> I hope to see many of you there next week.<br>
>             <br>
> -- Joe<br>
>           </blockquote>
>           <br>
>           <br>
>         </blockquote>
>         </div>
>         <br>
>         <pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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>       <br>
>       <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
> Tateru Nino
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
>  href="http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/">http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/</
> a> </pre>
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> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
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> keep unmoderated posting privileges</pre> </blockquote>
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>   <br>
>   <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
> Tateru Nino
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
>  href="http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/">http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/</
> a> </pre>
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> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
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Can someone please translate the above into readable English.



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