[opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV

Boy Lane boy.lane at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 29 17:38:19 PDT 2010

We certainly should follow the bright example of Emerald / Modularsystems,
where you Discrete are a member of. A pseudo company set up and owned
by known banned griefer JCool aka who revived his banned account(s) under
the names of Fractured Crystal/Fractured Modularsystems.

Back to their registration. JCool set up Modularsystems. A mailbox company
with the following contact details:

P.O. Box 5702
West Columbia, South Carolina 29171-5702
United States
administrator at modularsystems.sl

That is an untraceable anonymized entity without any name attached to it and
unknown legal status, registered with a domain name in Sierra Leone, a 
that does not even have a WHOIS.

This information was used to register and self-certify Emerald in the Viewer

As I as a legally uniformed hobby programmer without commercial interest can
evaluate this situation and validity of the Emerald listing, it is meant to 
any means of the viewer directory to hold a developer accountable for their
viewers. It is also meant to avoid any possible litigation from LL in case 
some malicious code may be found in their viewer(s). Besides Emerald, 
also develops and uses a malicious viewer named "Onyx" that is in clear 
violation of

So no, Discrete, all these things completely contradict your argument. As 
shown a
listing in Lindens viewer directory doesn't add a single piece of safety or 
security. To
look for a legitimate viewer the Alternate Viewer list in the community 
edited SL Wiki
is a better place to, for the simple reason malicious clients may not easily 
slip in as
this is possible with self-certification. A blacklist is a good thing and 
could at least
complement Viewer Directory and Alternate Viewers list. But of course it 
include most of the malicious viewer from the key developers behind 
which obviously you try to avoid.

Additional question to Linden Lab: How can for repeated ToS violations 
banned people just circumvent that ban by creating new accounts as many of 
Emerald developers did? Is it money spent for SL that counts rather than 


----- Original Message ----- > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:39:16 -0400
> From: Discrete Dreamscape <discrete.dreamscape at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
> directory ?
> To: Tigro Spottystripes <TigroSpottystripes at gmail.com>
> Cc: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
> Message-ID:
> <g2nc38195a91004291339p41f404edgfe05a593c813c6c1 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> This discussion seems to have been created with misleading intentions.
> Because some TPV creators don't want to reveal any personal information
> about themselves, they can't be posted on the TPV directory, and because 
> of
> this, it's understandable they might view the directory as unfair. But, 
> this
> doesn't strike me as a valid reason to criticize the list.
> It's certainly valid to say that the viewers on the list are not 
> absolutely
> trustworthy unless a full code audit is done, but even then, do you really
> know that what's in the code is the same as what's in the binary? Isn't
> there a limit to what LL can do, given a lack of resources to perform such
> audits, especially when what you download requires trust that it's the 
> same
> as what they've audited?
> But really, trust is supposed to be provided by the fact that the viewer 
> has
> indeed registered using real-life contact information, because who would
> give such a thing knowing they could be held liable if they indeed decided
> to include malicious code? In general, there is no way to certify purity
> here, you can only provide a level of trust as a guideline. You can't rely
> on babysitting the users, because LL isn't going to compile every third
> party's code and release the binaries themselves.
> In this regard, you may begin to argue that indeed, a blacklist would 
> better
> serve users. I argue that this is exactly the opposite. You may be able to
> pick out which viewers are explicitly untrusted, but you make no 
> statements
> about the trustworthiness of any others. In this situation, a user is left
> to choose between either a viewer which is in the grey about its status, 
> or
> an official Linden viewer. This point is key, as far less warranty is
> provided for users that they won't be banned for using a third party 
> viewer.
> I suspect that in this case, many would simply give up and use the 
> official
> client rather than risk their business, etc.
> If you want to provide a system where users can trust the clients they 
> use,
> it seems like our current one is decent enough. In any case, a blacklist
> doesn't appear to be any safer.
> Discrete

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