[opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Brandon Husbands
xotmid at gmail.com
Mon Sep 27 23:22:40 PDT 2010
To your p.s i think the code she submitted was more of a example of how its
done not a patch as she is not a coder nor submitted the code as a official
patch. Also you should note that most people are ignorant of LLs need to be
able to push code back into a closed source and assume that GPL / opensource
means LL can use it. Which actually would be a valid thought if ll's source
was gpl on its own versions. I on the other have have a CLA signed. Hence
why i said i would willingly re implement not port or copy. A version of my
own doing and optimization.
I think the major issue boils down to the feature is a major thing for sim
owners. I think the disconnection between the populace and LL is apparent in
this request as the residents see it as a critical feature and ll sees it in
a different view. But this list is not one to argue philosophy nor
semantics.
The code in question on the approach to how its done is not a bad one IMHO.
Yes server side could probably implement it better but none of the non LL on
this list have access to such things and must make do with what we are
given. From continued use its not apparent to be laggy actually but I could
be mistaken.
I strongly suggest this data (the end result) be includes as its value to
your residents is quite critical.
Dim.
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Kelly Linden <kelly at lindenlab.com> wrote:
> There are multiple issues at play here:
> What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force
> build the data being requested. Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a
> bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being
> done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at
> implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look
> at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a
> feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the
> future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the
> viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased
> responsibility.
>
> Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and
> they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could
> have been quicker to expose better tools to them.
>
> Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the
> viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to
> focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features
> we feel deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end.
> These features almost always benefit from both viewer and server
> development. It is also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related
> functionality together so we can better prioritize the features and bugs
> that effect the Land product against each other.
>
> So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone,
> and kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do
> a more thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to
> prioritize this feature request against the many other feature requests for
> the Land product.
>
> - Kelly
>
> P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software
> licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement
> and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by
> the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors
> agreement or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am
> guessing it is extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't
> create into the jira.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Just to iterate that it does work.
>>
>> [22:22] Counting scripts. Please wait.
>> [22:22] Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5
>>
>> Works for any object.
>> The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts
>> which is a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer
>> scripts in object.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER
>>> viewers. I attached like 10 files from the source code of all those
>>> viewers, the same exact files in each viewer that does this NOW. Did you
>>> even read my Jira?? I worked so hard to supply every bit of information.
>>> Unless you have allowed all these other viewers access to the server code, I
>>> think there has been a mistake, could you please reread my Jira.
>>>
>>> TY
>>>
>>> Miss
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <esbee at lindenlab.com>
>>> *Cc:* miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>; opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>> *Sent:* Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count
>>> feature request
>>>
>>> Actually no its a viewer feature...
>>>
>>>
>>> http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h
>>> and
>>>
>>> http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp
>>>
>>> Just plugin and create a menu etc...
>>>
>>> If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do
>>> that and comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.
>>>
>>> Dim.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <
>>> esbee at lindenlab.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Miss C,
>>>>
>>>> The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm
>>>> Team wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly
>>>> work on the server-side.
>>>>
>>>> I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and
>>>> prioritize the request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not
>>>> publicly visible in the new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with
>>>> all the supporting data and will be given proper consideration.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Esbee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is really a request for a new script function to report # of
>>>> scripts on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
>>>> correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team
>>>> for evaluation/prioritization.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access
>>>>> where it went either. Below are the details I added, worked real hard on
>>>>> getting all information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50
>>>>> something votes, now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Miss
>>>>>
>>>>> [
>>>>> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel]
>>>>>
>>>>> Esbee Linden updated VWR-23200:
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Summary: Script count feature request (was: Script Count - 2.0
>>>>> Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request)
>>>>>
>>>>> This is really a request for a new script function to report # of
>>>>> scripts on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
>>>>> correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team
>>>>> for evaluation/prioritization.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Script count feature request
>>>>> > -----------------------------
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Key: VWR-23200
>>>>> > URL: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>>>>> > Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
>>>>> > Issue Type: New Feature
>>>>> > Components: Avatar/Character, Building (in-world),
>>>>> Performance, Scripting, Source Code, User Interface
>>>>> > Environment: Second Life 2.2.1 (210525) Sep 25 2010 08:22:37
>>>>> (Second Life Development)
>>>>> > Release Notes
>>>>> > CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8300 @ 2.50GHz (2493.73 MHz)
>>>>> > Memory: 6078 MB
>>>>> > OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build
>>>>> 6001)
>>>>> > Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
>>>>> > Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series
>>>>> > Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1041
>>>>> > OpenGL Version: 3.3.10151 Compatibility Profile Context
>>>>> > libcurl Version: libcurl/7.20.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
>>>>> > J2C Decoder Version: KDU
>>>>> > Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.740000
>>>>> > Qt Webkit Version: 4.6 (version number hard-coded)
>>>>> > Voice Server Version: Not Connected
>>>>> > Built with MSVC version 1400
>>>>> > Reporter: Miss Wright
>>>>> > Priority: Severe
>>>>> > Attachments: CMakeLists.txt, floateravatarlist.cpp,
>>>>> llstartup.cpp, llviewermenu.cpp, menu_pie_attachment.xml,
>>>>> menu_pie_avatar.xml, menu_pie_object.xml, menu_pie_self.xml, message.xml,
>>>>> scriptcounter.cpp, scriptcounter.h, scriptcountsample.jpg
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As a sim owner I MUST have a script counter so we can keep our
>>>>> scripts low in the sim because of the excessive use of resizing scripts.
>>>>> Several times a day we have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate
>>>>> announcement to count your scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on
>>>>> the servers. Even though we do this several times a day there is always
>>>>> someone who forgot their scripts in something, you can easily find a good
>>>>> 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them. I am completely sold on the 2.0 code
>>>>> and can live without some of the other features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this
>>>>> one is an absolute deal breaker for me. I combed through the code to try
>>>>> and see if this was something handled in xml commands and its not, its in
>>>>> the Phoenix/Emerald code. Can we please get this option.
>>>>> > Also the option of avatar announcement and script fluctuation upon
>>>>> entering the sim helps combat scripts, this would be helpful in 2.0 but I
>>>>> wouldn't call it a deal breaker. I have it announcing when an avatar enters
>>>>> and announcing region script count change so i know as soon as they enter
>>>>> and their script count if I am paying attention.
>>>>> > TY
>>>>> > Miss
>>>>> > UPDATE: MORE INFO: If you are using a viewer based on the Emerald
>>>>> code base such as Emergance or Phoenix you can rightclick any object
>>>>> including avatars and it will count how many scripts are attached to the
>>>>> avatar or are inside the object. See referencing picture.You then receive
>>>>> this message...
>>>>> > [10:36] Counting scripts. Please wait.
>>>>> > [10:36] Counted scripts from 14 attachments on amethys Inglewood:
>>>>> 540 (this is someone that volunteered for this test)
>>>>> > Looking through the Phoenix, Wasabi, Emergance, & Emerald XML I find
>>>>> that all self object, attachment pie menus point to a function called
>>>>> "Object.VisibleScriptCount"
>>>>> > The code is found in the menuviewer.xml
>>>>> > <menu_item_call bottom="-525" enabled="false" height="19"
>>>>> label="Count Scripts in Selection" left="0" mouse_opaque="true" name="Count
>>>>> Scripts in Selection" width="250">
>>>>> > <on_click function="Object.ScriptCount" />
>>>>> > <on_enable function="Object.VisibleScriptCount" />
>>>>> > </menu_item_call>
>>>>> > I have attached the appropriate files that are in all these viewers
>>>>> > Also this is the other feature I am referring to
>>>>> > [10:34] amethys Inglewood has entered the sim.
>>>>> > [10:34] Total scripts jumped from 3357 to 3957 (600)
>>>>> > These are in separate functions in those viewers, one is in the
>>>>> radar, the other is in script change region announcements under phoenix misc
>>>>> in preferences. You see here his script count is higher than what his body
>>>>> count is because the body count does not include HUD attachments. So this
>>>>> means he has 60 on his HUD I cant see or count, I just know there was a
>>>>> region change when he entered the sim.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
>>>>> -
>>>>> If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators:
>>>>> https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Administrators.jspa
>>>>> -
>>>>> For more information on JIRA, see:
>>>>> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Frans <mrfrans at gmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> *Cc:* opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>>>> *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 4:18:41 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script
>>>>> count feature request
>>>>>
>>>>> For some reason I can't access the Jira. I'm not sure what you are
>>>>> asking for. If you are asking for a script counter, there is the top scripts
>>>>> counter in the estate panel.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Frans
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I added it to the Jira : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it is a duplicate, I apologize, I did search and didn't find
>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miss
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> *To:* opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>>>>> *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 9:21:39 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:* [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count
>>>>>> feature request
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our
>>>>>> scripts low in the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts.
>>>>>> Several times a day we have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate
>>>>>> announcement to count your scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on
>>>>>> the servers. Even though we do this several times a day there is always
>>>>>> someone who forgot their scripts in something, you can easily find a good
>>>>>> 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them. I am completely sold on the 2.0 code
>>>>>> and can live without some of the other features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this
>>>>>> one is an absolute deal breaker for me. I combed through the code to try
>>>>>> and see if this was something handled in xml commands and its not, its in
>>>>>> the Phoenix/Emerald code. Can we please get this option, also the option of
>>>>>> avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps combat scripts. I have it
>>>>>> announcing when an avatar enters and announcing region script count change
>>>>>> so i know as soon as they enter and their script count if I am paying
>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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