[opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 19, Issue 41

malachi at tamzap.com malachi at tamzap.com
Tue Aug 16 15:10:20 PDT 2011
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I as well have called support and submitted a ticket, however to follow 
up on these tickets they want you to log into an account that they have 
deleted from their system. Seems to me as if someone at LL has gotten 
ban happy. And with issuing bans for the reason we are discussing is 
just down right idiotic. How can I help develop the OPEN SOURCE client 
if I cannot log in with it to test changes that I make?

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:43:05 -0500, John Jackson wrote:
> Re: Unjust Banning of residents?
>
> Don't wast time appealing. I did and got nothing but stonewalling 
> from
> Support.
> Although they admitted they suspended my account for an invalid 
> reason, they
> would not reveal any details. Claiming only that I was using a viewer
> that "MIGHT"
> violate the TPV, since it was not listed in the TPV directory.
>
> On 8/16/2011 3:17 PM, opensource-dev-request at lists.secondlife.com 
> wrote:
>> Send opensource-dev mailing list submissions to
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>>
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>     1. Re: Unjust Banning of residents? (malachi at tamzap.com)
>>     2. Re: Unjust Banning of residents? (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence))
>>     3. Re: Unjust Banning of residents? (Erin Mallory)
>>     4. Re: OS X Lion (Yoz Grahame)
>>
>>
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:14:24 -0700
>> From: malachi at tamzap.com
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>> To:<opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com>
>> Message-ID:<651e5d29e95ffa9e5a658e241bf17183 at tamzap.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>
>> the only viewers on this computer are singularity and
>> viewer-developments source code.
>>
>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:12:13 -0700, Brian McGroarty wrote:
>>> What were some of the viewers you tested on that account? 
>>> Typically,
>>> the trigger would have been within the last month.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Erin Mallory  wrote:
>>>
>>>> im just like wtf?? the account i got hit by (which i sent the
>>>> name of to oz) is still showing active... in search... but its one
>>> i
>>>> rarely use.? mostly for hiding and/or testing stuff.? Im hearing
>>>> the same from other people too now though in other groups im
>>> in...?
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:04:11 -0700
>>>>> From: malachi at tamzap.com [1]
>>>>> To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com [2]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>>>>>
>>>>> I knew it couldnt be just a single event. There is something
>>>> going on
>>>>> at Linden Lab and honest developers are losing their accounts
>>>> over it.
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:46:29 -0400, Erin Mallory wrote:
>>>>>> I have been hit with this as well on one of my alts.
>>>> interestingly, I
>>>>>> have only ever logged that account in with v-d builds or
>>>> firestorm.
>>>>>> I've sent an abuse report asking for clarification. im about
>>>> to
>>>>>> contact support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: jessica at trinityenterprises.ca [3]
>>>>>>> To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com [4]
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:41:56 -0400
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is interesting as our support team has had reports of
>>>> this
>>>>>> from some of
>>>>>>> our own users. We figured it was phishing and suggested said
>>>> users
>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>> LL. I don't know the results however...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jessica Lyon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [5]
>>>>>>> [mailto:opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [6]] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>>> malachi at tamzap.com [7]
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 2:23 PM
>>>>>>> To: Marine Kelley
>>>>>>> Cc: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com [8]
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought it was a phishing attempt as well. But the account
>>>> has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> removed from second life. POOF. so unless some phisher has the
>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>> to terminate accounts this is as real as it gets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:21:48 +0200, Marine Kelley wrote:
>>>>>>>> Careful, it could be a phishing attempt. Do NOT click on any
>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> links inside this email (unless you're certain it comes from
>>>>>> Linden
>>>>>>>> Lab, but then again emails can be spoofed).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16/08/2011, malachi at tamzap.com [9] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> exactly which is why this message is so disturbing.
>>>> accounts
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> terminated from second life for using a viewer not listed
>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> directory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "This email is notification that Linden Lab has terminated
>>>>>>>>> your access to the Second Life virtual world due to severe
>>>>>>>>> or repeated violations of the Second Life Terms of Service
>>>>>>>>> or Community Standards. Your (account name
>>>> 'xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx')
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> alternate Second Life accounts have been
>>>>>>>>> made permanently inaccessible."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:33:39 -0400, Erin Mallory wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Last I checked there is no requirement to use an approved
>>>> tvp.
>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> on the tvp listing page. Looking at the policy and the
>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>>>> pages, no where does it say that the viewer must be listed
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> tvp...
>>>>>>>>>> http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php [10]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory [11]
>>>>>>>>>> "You may connect to Second Life using software released by
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> third-party developer. Linden Lab provides a Policy on
>>>>>> Third-Party
>>>>>>>>>> Viewers [1] to promote a positive and predictable
>>>> experience
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> Second Life Residents."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:23:21 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>> From: malachi at tamzap.com [12]
>>>>>>>>>>> To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com [13]
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Violation: Third Party Viewer Usage
>>>>>>>>>>> You are connecting to the grid with a viewer that is not
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> third
>>>>>>>>>>> party viewer directory.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> However...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A viewer does not need to be on the Third Party Viewer
>>>>>> Directory
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> order for development or usage of it to be compliant with
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Third
>>>>>>>>>>> Party Viewer Policy (see Policy on Third-Party Viewers |
>>>>>> Second
>>>>>>>>>> Life)
>>>>>>>>>>> and the Terms of Service. While I am sure you are well
>>>> aware
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> this, it
>>>>>>>>>>> can also be deduced through common sense that the open
>>>> source
>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>> (Snowstorm, Snowglobe, etc) would not be able to exist in
>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> environment
>>>>>>>>>>> where every personal compile had to be listed on the TPVD
>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> could even begin to undergo any form of live quality
>>>> assurance
>>>>>>>>>>> processes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Long story short, unless there have been recent changes
>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>> Terms of
>>>>>>>>>>> Service that I am unaware of, or if there are relevant
>>>>>> sections
>>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>>>> have missed that indicate that a viewer that complies
>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> Third
>>>>>>>>>>> Party Viewer Policy still must be in the Directory to be
>>>>>>>>>> legitimately
>>>>>>>>>>> used, I would request that you provide me with them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What this means is every single BETA tester for every
>>>> client
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> TPVD is at risk of losing their accounts because that
>>>> compiled
>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>> of that client is not listed on the TPVD. Each and every
>>>>>> Developer
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>> has worked so hard to help Linden Lab build their Client
>>>> into
>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>> is at risk of losing their accounts because each time
>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> recompile the
>>>>>>>>>>> source it isn't listed in the TPVD and is now considered
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> Violation of
>>>>>>>>>>> some hidden TOS clause.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am posting this to this forum because I wanted to get
>>>> feed
>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> the community. As I myself and a developer who has
>>>> contributed
>>>>>>>>>> patches
>>>>>>>>>>> to various TPVD Clients and am now finding myself
>>>> cautious to
>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>> these clients source codes to help them. I would like
>>>>>>>>>>> clarification
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> Linden Lab as well as other Developers on this new
>>>> banning
>>>>>> policy
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is requiring every compiled client that connects to
>>>> second
>>>>>> life to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> listed in the TPVD.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev [14]
>>>>>>>>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep
>>>> unmoderated
>>>>>>>>>>> posting
>>>>>>>>>> privileges
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Links:
>>>>>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>>>>> [1] http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php [15]
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev [16]
>>>>>>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep
>>>> unmoderated
>>>>>> posting
>>>>>>>>> privileges
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev [17]
>>>>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
>>>> posting
>>>>>>> privileges
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev [18]
>>>>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
>>>> posting
>>>>>> privileges
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev [19]
>>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
>>>> posting privileges
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev [20]
>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
>>>> posting privileges
>>> --
>>> Brian McGroarty | Linden Lab
>>> Sent from my Newton MP2100 via acoustic coupler
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] mailto:malachi at tamzap.com
>>> [2] mailto:opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>> [3] mailto:jessica at trinityenterprises.ca
>>> [4] mailto:opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>> [5] mailto:opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com
>>> [6] mailto:opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com
>>> [7] mailto:malachi at tamzap.com
>>> [8] mailto:opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>> [9] mailto:malachi at tamzap.com
>>> [10] http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php
>>> [11] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory
>>> [12] mailto:malachi at tamzap.com
>>> [13] mailto:opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>> [14] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> [15] http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php
>>> [16] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> [17] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> [18] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> [19] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> [20] http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> [21] mailto:angel_of_crimson at hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:14:35 -0400
>> From: "Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)"<oz at lindenlab.com>
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>> To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>> Message-ID:<4E4AC19B.2020205 at lindenlab.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On 2011-08-16 13:23, malachi at tamzap.com wrote:
>>> Violation: Third Party Viewer Usage
>>> You are connecting to the grid with a viewer that is not in the 
>>> third
>>> party viewer directory.
>> That message was unfortunately not constructed well, and steps have 
>> been
>> taken to make sure that misleading phrasing is not used in future 
>> messages.
>>
>> Let me be clear:
>>
>>    * There has been no change in the Policy on Third Party Viewers 
>> or the
>>      Terms of Service.
>>    * It is ok to connect to Second Life with any viewer that 
>> complies
>>      with the Policy on Third Party Viewers, even if that viewer is 
>> not
>>      in the Third Party Viewer Directory.
>>
>>
>> I will not comment on whether or not any particular enforcement 
>> action
>> was justified, and suggest that public mailing lists and forums are 
>> not
>> the best place to discuss individual cases.   If you believe that 
>> your
>> account was improperly affected, the process you should follow is 
>> here:
>> http://bit.ly/hBIjz
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:19:33 -0400
>> From: Erin Mallory<angel_of_crimson at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>> To:<oz at lindenlab.com>,<opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com>
>> Message-ID:<SNT136-W2517164499DD98A594B0DEC0290 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> could some or all of the viewer-development builds be triggering 
>> something at LL incorrectly and causing them to be seen as banned or 
>> otherwise illegitimate viewers?
>>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:14:35 -0400
>> From: oz at lindenlab.com
>> To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      On 2011-08-16 13:23, malachi at tamzap.com wrote:
>>
>>        Violation: Third Party Viewer Usage
>> You are connecting to the grid with a viewer that is not in the 
>> third
>> party viewer directory.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      That message was unfortunately not constructed well, and steps 
>> have
>>      been taken to make sure that misleading phrasing is not used in
>>      future messages.
>>
>>
>>
>>      Let me be clear:
>>
>>
>>        There has been no change in the Policy on Third Party Viewers
>>          or the Terms of Service.
>>        It is ok to connect to Second Life with any viewer that
>>          complies with the Policy on Third Party Viewers, even if 
>> that
>>          viewer is not in the Third Party Viewer Directory.
>>
>>
>>
>>      I will not comment on whether or not any particular enforcement
>>      action was justified, and suggest that public mailing lists and
>>      forums are not the best place to discuss individual cases.   If 
>> you
>>      believe that your account was improperly affected, the process 
>> you
>>      should follow is here: http://bit.ly/hBIjz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting 
>> privileges
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20110816/437b7400/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:17:32 -0700
>> From: Yoz Grahame<yoz at lindenlab.com>
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] OS X Lion
>> To: Lee ponzu<lee.ponzu at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Opensource_dev<opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com>
>> Message-ID:<E7B982640F624799B0FA1865A0CC562D at lindenlab.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>   I've never seen that *myself*, and I've run a number of different 
>> viewer builds since installing Lion dev preview 4.
>>
>> -- Yoz
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:
>>
>>> i have heard two people report that they cannot *initiate* an IM. 
>>> They can receive them, but not *start* a session.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Yoz Grahame<yoz at lindenlab.com 
>>> (mailto:yoz at lindenlab.com)>  wrote:
>>>>   Not speaking for the team here (especially because I'm not in 
>>>> viewer development), just myself as a Lion user (Mid-2009 MBP, 
>>>> NVidia):
>>>>
>>>> There are only two major Lion-specific bugs that have bitten my 
>>>> own use so far.
>>>>
>>>> One is Freaky Polygons, which was quickly eased by turning off 
>>>> OpenGL vertex buffer objects (VBOs) in the Graphics->Hardware 
>>>> settings. There's a fix of some kind in the pipeline.
>>>> The other is a weird problem with certain web views (such as 
>>>> Profiles) showing up with no CSS or JS; this turned out to be SSL 
>>>> cert related, and there's a fix for this one in the pipeline too.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from those two bugs, the viewer Works On My Machine?. I hope 
>>>> it also answers the overall question: yes, attention is being paid.
>>>>
>>>> -- Yoz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, August 15, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How much attention is being paid to Lion?  I think the natives 
>>>>> are starting to get restless.
>>>>>
>>>>> ponzu
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>>>>   Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated 
>>>>> posting privileges
>>>>
>>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> opensource-dev mailing list
>> opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>> /index.html
>>
>>
>> End of opensource-dev Digest, Vol 19, Issue 41
>> **********************************************
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
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