From jhwelch at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 05:48:34 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 08:48:34 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> References: <5499F820.6010201@lindenlab.com> <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: More notes: The Tortoise HG link points to the main web page, not to the file we are supposed to download. The CMake link points to the main web page, not to the file we are supposed to download. Also, the instructions call for version 3.1.0. The latest version is 3.1.1 and the version just prior to that one is 3.0.2. Same issue for Cygwin link pointing to main web page. Intermediate check -- instructions needed on how to open a cygwin terminal. Inconsistent word usage; previously it was called a shell. Even better would be to only use the command prompt window. Less confusing than having to remember what window to do various operations in. In Install Autobuild there is a clickable link that should not be there: http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/autobuild-metadata#egg=autobuild In Update system PATH instructions on how to proceed in the Control Panel are needed. Oups, I have to go and apply Tank's patch for DirectX, as that has not made it into the instructions yet. From jhwelch at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 06:10:16 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 09:10:16 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <5499F820.6010201@lindenlab.com> <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Dropping in Tank's modified cmake file was not successful for me. During the configure step there were errors and the final result did not produce a .sln file. So I will wait until his patch is officially incorporated before testing these instructions further. On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Jonathan Welch wrote: > More notes: > The Tortoise HG link points to the main web page, not to the file we > are supposed to download. > > The CMake link points to the main web page, not to the file we are > supposed to download. > Also, the instructions call for version 3.1.0. The latest version is > 3.1.1 and the version just prior to that one is 3.0.2. > > Same issue for Cygwin link pointing to main web page. > > Intermediate check -- instructions needed on how to open a cygwin > terminal. Inconsistent word usage; previously it was called a shell. > > Even better would be to only use the command prompt window. Less > confusing than having to remember what window to do various operations > in. > > In Install Autobuild there is a clickable link that should not be there: > http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/autobuild-metadata#egg=autobuild > > In Update system PATH instructions on how to proceed in the Control > Panel are needed. > > Oups, I have to go and apply Tank's patch for DirectX, as that has not > made it into the instructions yet. From wolfpup67 at earthlink.net Sun Feb 1 08:59:53 2015 From: wolfpup67 at earthlink.net (Wolfpup Lowenhar) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 11:59:53 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <5499F820.6010201@lindenlab.com> <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <20150129114546.fd4eea79.sldev@free.fr> <20150129214422.e07a10a0.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <000f01d03e40$802f7fd0$808e7f70$@net> Hello everyone, It has been a long time since the last time I have worked on the viewer and when I saw about the tool chain upgrade to use VS2013 I started working on it. Now to the issues concerning FModEX, QuickTime, and Havok. First FModEX : there is a switch already present for adding FModEX to the OS Builds all you have to do is add -DFMODEX:BOOL=ON to the autobuild.xml file in the proper OS build settings. Also it looks like there needs to be an additional switch added to use the FModEX libs if you have it installed in your system because when I did a test build using the local package that I have the package is marked as 'dirty' since there is no metadata in the package. Second QuickTime: First the Quicktime.cmake file has to be modified to add switches -DUSE_QUICKTIME:BOOL=TRUE and -DUSE_QUICKTIME_LOCAL_REPO:BOOL=TRUE so that the OS community can use their local installation of the QuickTime SDK with one file in the SDK modified so that it does not collide with the windows system files during the build as per the noted modifications in the previous windows build setup instructions. I am getting an error during the configuration process and am wondering if it is the newer version of cmake not accepting the mods I have made to the cmake file. Here is a diff of the change I have made: @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ # -*- cmake -*- -if(INSTALL_PROPRIETARY) +if(USE_QUICKTIME) include(Prebuilt) if (WINDOWS) use_prebuilt_binary(quicktime) endif (WINDOWS) @@ -4,10 +4,10 @@ include(Prebuilt) if (WINDOWS) use_prebuilt_binary(quicktime) endif (WINDOWS) -endif(INSTALL_PROPRIETARY) +endif(USE_QUICKTIME) if (DARWIN) include(CMakeFindFrameworks) find_library(QUICKTIME_LIBRARY QuickTime) elseif (WINDOWS) @@ -9,10 +9,15 @@ if (DARWIN) include(CMakeFindFrameworks) find_library(QUICKTIME_LIBRARY QuickTime) elseif (WINDOWS) - set(QUICKTIME_SDK_DIR "$ENV{PROGRAMFILES}/QuickTime SDK" - CACHE PATH "Location of the QuickTime SDK.") + if (USE_QUICKTIME_LOCAL_REPO) + set(QUICKTIME_SDK_DIR "$ENV(QUICKTIME_SDK_DIR)" + CACHE PATH "Location of the QuickTime SDK.") + else (APPLE LOCAL SDK) + set(QUICKTIME_SDK_DIR "$ENV{PROGRAMFILES}/QuickTime SDK" + CACHE PATH "Location of the QuickTime SDK.") + endif (USE_QUICKTIME_LOCAL_REPO) find_library(DEBUG_QUICKTIME_LIBRARY qtmlclient.lib PATHS I'm getting the error on the two variables USE_QUICKTIME and USE_QUICKTIME_LOCAL_REPO now these work just fine in the VS2010 builds with Cmake 2.8 so I'm wondering if it is a change in Cmake that might be causing the issue. The error that is being thrown is about the variables not being use and ignored so it does not affect the configure or the build. I will continue to work on this and see if I can correct this issue once I have it worked out I will post a jira issue and include a working repo based off the needed changes for going through the needed steps for approval for including in the viewer source. Third Havok is a proprietary third party lib that has to be bought in order for anyone in the OS community to use it now there are some TPV's that use and Open Source system that is similar so that those viewers have mesh functionality. On this I had work on some myself in the past as an Open Source option that LL could provide to the OS community even though that did not progress very far. From: opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Callum Prentice (Callum) Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 5:06 PM To: Henri Beauchamp Cc: opensource-dev Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help Yep - we need to add the right set of parameters to 'autobuild' to set up FMod, Havok QuickTime etc. Can anyone tell me what they are or point me at the right doc before I start searching. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Henri Beauchamp wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 11:45:46 +0100, Henri Beauchamp wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 10:53:11 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > > > We've also put up a new page of instructions on how to set up a Windows > > development environment > > . > > Suggestions for improvement are most welcome here and on the Talk > > page... we're trying to keep it as simple as possible while being > > sufficient to build a clean checkout of the viewer. > > Missing bits: > > - When using Windows 7, you must also update from IE8 to a newer version > since else, you can't log in to register for a free license from within > Visual Studio 2013 Community (the IE8 Javascript engine fails on two of > the scripts used by VS2013). > > - To compile a viewer, you'll also need FMOD Ex installed. > > Henri. I also forgot: there's the Quicktime issue: TPVs need the QuickTime SDK (v7.3) installed, since the pre-built library in autobuild.xml is on a private (Linden-only) server... Henri. _______________________________________________ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- Callum Prentice | Software Engineer Cell 650 888 1697 | Skype CallumPrentice | Second Life Callum Linden Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4273/9037 - Release Date: 02/01/15 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150201/28d35e26/attachment-0001.htm From dzonatas at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 08:48:18 2015 From: dzonatas at gmail.com (Jonathan Ballard) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 08:48:18 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> References: <93AA4D0E543247668450BE34FB907BF2@MegaHal> <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: What did not work in production is compression and encryption with, said, "foreign agendas," inefficiencies, power consumption. In game mechanics, those tests are ignored and seem irrelevant because it is working. Under applied STEM research, even openjpeg failed production factors. If it doesn't work nicely (on bare metal) then it is subject for *external* video card mechanics and those agendas, warranties. We have not received any digitally signed TOS tokens that specifically enable *Auto*build or register certain build features. The challenge is there, as the lawyers said, "it doesn't benefit me." In California, ibid. On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < oz at lindenlab.com> wrote: > On 2015-01-30 11:51 , Tank Master wrote: > > You are getting an error because that isn't a valid command. Use > "autobuild configure -c RelWithDebInfoOS" OR "autobuild configure -c > ReleaseOS" Also, This will still fail do to tests. I used: "autobuild > configure -c ReleaseOS -- -DPACKAGE:BOOL=OFF -DLL_TESTS:BOOL=OFF" to turn > off both packaging and tests. > > > The tests should work - they do for us, though I suppose some may depend > on libs not in open source. > > -- > *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | *Engineering Director, Second Life* > Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden > > Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces > Check out what we're working on! > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/d0a7fa3d/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Mon Feb 2 10:05:20 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:05:20 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> On 2015-01-31 07:53 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > Greetings, > > I know this should be posted in the JIRA, but apparently the comments in > the existing issue (SUN-38) are not read or not taken into account by > Lindens. > > Please, to any and all Linden(s) involved in AHH, do read this post for > your own enlightement (and hopefully, a better and definitive solution > for the SL community as a whole): > http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1494&p=6890#p6890 > > Note that I'm beyond the point to care about whether this message will > be taken into account or not (so it's perfectly useless to enter a > sterile argument on this list about it). It's more like a bottled > message I throw into the sea... I won't speculate on whether or not we would have decided to do it differently had your suggestion actually been made when we were starting work on this months ago; the factors affecting avatar height and avatar vertical offset are quite complicated and it may or may not have been the right thing to do. I will say that your input would certainly have been considered had you been a part of the conversation at the time rather than posting a note on our private forum well after the fact. Despite the fact that you refuse to contribute your code, I'm happy to make sure that your input is considered if and when you provide it in a timely way; I hope that in the future you'll chose to engage more productively. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/d06072dd/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Mon Feb 2 10:25:13 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:25:13 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> On 2015-01-31 17:38 , Nicky Perian wrote: > Anyone know what causes this on a release build? > Doesn't stop the build and the installer is still made. > 3>------ Build started: Project: generate_viewer_version, > Configuration: Release Win32 ------ > 3> processing > 3> 'printf' is not recognized as an internal or external command, > 3> operable program or batch file. > 3>C:\Program Files > (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets(170,5): > error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 9009. > > Appears to come from newview/CMakeLists.txt > source_group("CMake Rules" FILES ViewerInstall.cmake) > > # the viewer_version.txt file created here is for passing to > viewer_manifest and autobuild > # the summary.json file is created for the benefit of the TeamCity > builds, where > # it is used to provide descriptive information to the build results page > add_custom_target(generate_viewer_version ALL > COMMAND printf > '${VIEWER_SHORT_VERSION}.${VIEWER_VERSION_REVISION}' > > ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/viewer_version.txt > COMMAND printf > '{"Type":"viewer","Version":"${VIEWER_SHORT_VERSION}.${VIEWER_VERSION_REVISION}"}' > > ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/summary.json > COMMENT Generating viewer_version.txt for manifest > processing > ) That looks like cmake is trying to run commands in a windows shell rather than bash; the printf is a bash command. This works in our build environment. It's possible that it could be replaced with cmake FILE commands? -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/91f43ec1/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Mon Feb 2 10:30:31 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:30:31 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> On 2015-01-31 11:41 , Nicky Perian wrote: > Two methods for command line building have been tested each starting > with a fresh build-vc120 directory, with tests and package on. > Machine spec is Intel i7 all 8 cores running with 6GB memory. > > autobuild configure -c ReleaseOSCE and autobuild build -c ReleaseOSCE > Calls Devenv.exe which is the build program for VS2013 Community Edition > Build completed in 53 minutes. > > autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS and autobuild build -c ReleaseOS > Calls MSBuild.exe which is the build program available in VS2013 > Express Edition AND VS2013 Community Edition. > Build completes in 77 minutes. > > Should we provide open source developers both methods? > I would prefer not to support more than one configuration for internal use and one for external use. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/55693da2/attachment-0001.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Mon Feb 2 10:39:41 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:39:41 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54CFC46D.3000904@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-02 13:05 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > I will say that your input would certainly have been considered had > you been a part of the conversation at the time rather than posting a > note on our private forum well after the fact. s/our private forum/your private forum/ -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/c7204716/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 10:42:05 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 12:42:05 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild or Devenv? On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < oz at lindenlab.com> wrote: > On 2015-01-31 11:41 , Nicky Perian wrote: > > Two methods for command line building have been tested each starting > with a fresh build-vc120 directory, with tests and package on. > Machine spec is Intel i7 all 8 cores running with 6GB memory. > > autobuild configure -c ReleaseOSCE and autobuild build -c ReleaseOSCE > Calls Devenv.exe which is the build program for VS2013 Community Edition > Build completed in 53 minutes. > > autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS and autobuild build -c ReleaseOS > Calls MSBuild.exe which is the build program available in VS2013 Express > Edition AND VS2013 Community Edition. > Build completes in 77 minutes. > > Should we provide open source developers both methods? > > > I would prefer not to support more than one configuration for internal use > and one for external use. > > > -- > *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | *Engineering Director, Second Life* > Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden > > Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces > Check out what we're working on! > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/c9fd19c3/attachment.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Mon Feb 2 11:00:30 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 12:00:30 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 2, 2015 at 11:42:10 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) wrote: Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild or Devenv? ? If it?s Team City or Bamboo, then it calls MSBuild like Microsoft recommends. Not?sure about others. Drake has fixed the issue with?command line building using msbuild and we posted a link in the relevant jira. The fix is much simpler and doesn?t create additional build targets.?https://bitbucket.org/LightDrake/open-290/commits/a3716dfdd1f6da9d91b5b708f7f372101e24d572 --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)??wrote: On 2015-01-31 11:41 , Nicky Perian wrote: Two ?methods for command line building have been tested each starting with a fresh build-vc120 directory, with tests and package on. Machine spec is Intel i7 all 8 cores running with 6GB memory. autobuild configure -c ReleaseOSCE and autobuild build -c ReleaseOSCE Calls Devenv.exe which is the build program for VS2013 Community Edition Build completed in 53 minutes. autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS and autobuild build -c ReleaseOS Calls MSBuild.exe which is the build program available in VS2013 Express Edition AND VS2013 Community Edition. Build completes in 77 minutes. Should we provide open source developers both methods? I would prefer not to support more than one configuration for internal use and one for external use. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/4652a49b/attachment.htm From sldev at free.fr Mon Feb 2 11:49:49 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 20:49:49 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:05:20 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > On 2015-01-31 07:53 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > I know this should be posted in the JIRA, but apparently the comments in > > the existing issue (SUN-38) are not read or not taken into account by > > Lindens. > > > > Please, to any and all Linden(s) involved in AHH, do read this post for > > your own enlightement (and hopefully, a better and definitive solution > > for the SL community as a whole): > > http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1494&p=6890#p6890 > > > > Note that I'm beyond the point to care about whether this message will > > be taken into account or not (so it's perfectly useless to enter a > > sterile argument on this list about it). It's more like a bottled > > message I throw into the sea... > > I won't speculate on whether or not we would have decided to do it > differently had your suggestion actually been made when we were starting > work on this months ago; the factors affecting avatar height and avatar > vertical offset are quite complicated and it may or may not have been > the right thing to do. I will say that your input would certainly have > been considered had you been a part of the conversation at the time > rather than posting a note on our private forum well after the fact. Are you ***kidding*** me ???? I have been attending quite a few Server group meetings with Nyx, and you even were there once (for sure) or twice (can't swear on it), when I spoke about the SUN-38 issue. You will find several agendas with my entry about SUN-38, in the Wiki: http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=henri+sun-38&fulltext=Search Most of the corresponding transcripts are alas missing from the Wiki, but I *did* explain my solution in at least two of those meetings and I will point out one particular agenda, where I asked if SPEAKING with a Linden about SUN-38 and the possible solutions would be at all possible: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Archive/2013-04-29 It's not my fault if you keep shrugging off every remark or proposal I make, or even refuse the dialog (in plain text, because I cannot articulate well enough English neither understand English spoken with the US American accent in real time). I will not even bother quoting the various emails I sent to *YOU*, Oz, and that you never replied (albeit about other subjects than SUN-38), but if you want them, I could dig in my backups... > Despite the fact that you refuse to contribute your code, Again you are reverting the roles here !!!! I never refused to contribute my code: it's GPL and always said that anyone (and yes, that includes *you* Lindens) could reuse it. Also, each time someone asked for permissionto make my code LGPL to be compatible with their own viewer, I always said "go for it !". What I refuse, however, is to sign a contribution agreement where I would have to give private data to perfect strangers residing in a foreign country that doesn't respect the privacy protection Law of *my* country (or of any other country for that purpose). You perfectly know this, for I explained it to you (and to Soft Linden, your predecessor) countless times in emails, even going down to give you pointers to paragraphs in the (English- translated even !) French Law "Informatique et Libert?". I am not the one refusing to contribute my code, YOU are the one(s) refusing to use my contributions because of stupid and pointless lawyer-induced bureaucracy. It is *YOUR* choice and *YOUR* refusal, not mine !!! > I'm happy to make sure that your input is considered if and when > you provide it in a timely way; I am the very initiator of the SUN-38 issue, and if you re-read the comments I made in it, my solution is exposed here as well (see the comment posted on 22/Jun/14 10:58 AM, in reply to the Firestorm team's proposal, i.e. QUITE in the TIMELY manner !!!). I ALWAYS gave pointers to major flaws and regressions, either in the form of a JIRA issue, or directly via emails (to YOU !!!). So, accusing me of not providing the info or not in a timely manner is quite INSULTING and a pure LIE from your part. > I hope that in the future you'll chose to engage more productively. I hope that in the future, you will actually read the JIRAs I initiate, the emails I send to you, the messages I post on the various boards and blogs you DO frequent as well as I do (Nalate's blog, to cite just one). I also hope that you will make the minimum effort to communicate in a way that a non-English speaking person such as myself can actually manage (Open Source meetings used to happen in CHAT and not in voice, when Soft Linden was still there... and I DID tell you in one of your first meetings that people like me COULDN'T attend your meetings because of the language barrier: I can find the log, if you wish...). Now, I would *much* more prefer a clever and fruitful collaboration to this sterile childish behaviour (ignoring me, then putting the fault on me for not participating. I think that in 8+ years of SLing, I *never stopped* participating !). A *pissed* off (BIG TIME !)... Henri. From nickyperian at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 12:11:01 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 14:11:01 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: I am asking because when we went through the change for 2005->2010 (see issue OPEN-1) LL used devenv in their systems and several of their dev's had autobuild on personal dev boxes that pointed to devenv. The problem was that many of the OS developers, would be contributors, were using VS2010 Express and it did not have devenv so, the option chosen was to use MSBuild for opensource and continue use of devenv at LL. This provided a satisfactory solution which has served us well. But, all along their was lurking about the fact that the 2 build systems did not match. So, when I saw that VS2013 CE had devenv I wanted to test it. Granted the MS note to use the improved build program MSBuild was present on MS's web page at VS2010 launch. However, at that time LL continued to use Devenv. Things change over time and it could be that LL has updated their automated build scripts to favor MSBuild. Thus, the question is: "Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild or Devenv?" On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Cinder Roxley wrote: > On February 2, 2015 at 11:42:10 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) > wrote: > > > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild or > Devenv? > > > If it?s Team City or Bamboo, then it calls MSBuild like Microsoft > recommends. Not sure about others. Drake has fixed the issue with command > line building using msbuild and we posted a link in the relevant jira. The > fix is much simpler and doesn?t create additional build targets. > https://bitbucket.org/LightDrake/open-290/commits/a3716dfdd1f6da9d91b5b708f7f372101e24d572 > -- > Cinder Roxley > Sent with Airmail > > > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < > oz at lindenlab.com> wrote: > >> On 2015-01-31 11:41 , Nicky Perian wrote: >> >> Two methods for command line building have been tested each starting >> with a fresh build-vc120 directory, with tests and package on. >> Machine spec is Intel i7 all 8 cores running with 6GB memory. >> >> autobuild configure -c ReleaseOSCE and autobuild build -c ReleaseOSCE >> Calls Devenv.exe which is the build program for VS2013 Community Edition >> Build completed in 53 minutes. >> >> autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS and autobuild build -c ReleaseOS >> Calls MSBuild.exe which is the build program available in VS2013 Express >> Edition AND VS2013 Community Edition. >> Build completes in 77 minutes. >> >> Should we provide open source developers both methods? >> >> >> I would prefer not to support more than one configuration for internal >> use and one for external use. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/c6662c5f/attachment.htm From desmoulins.uchi at googlemail.com Mon Feb 2 14:26:58 2015 From: desmoulins.uchi at googlemail.com (Niran) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 23:26:58 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: I don't necessarily want to kick the dead horse here but the matter of fact is that Henri is absolutely (and sadly) right. I do understand that your role Oz could be very stressing (since you were promoted i see you very rarely and only for a really small time frame) but the thing here is that we non Lindens often seem to be discarded as "unimportant people" and i am not just talking about developers. Sometimes it seems to me that (wether it's your or Linden Lab's intentional plan or not), you are trying to kill Second Life (may it be for no reason or economic reasons like getting everyone to SL2) or at least hinder Second Life's development so much that it makes almost no noticeable progression. The last real progressive developments i have seen in SL were Fitted Mesh and Materials implementation, things we could have had long ago already, things like the new Server Side Appearance are wasted time, that literally destroyed more than they actually fixed considering that people who got problems with baking were often people who were horribly outdated with Software and Hardware, people who shouldn't be using Second Life anyway. In that regard it really baffles me that so many efforts of LL have gone into "compatibility" for outdated stuff that shouldn't even exist anymore, you may call this "Content Destruction", i think its the payment for a proper future of Second Life, you can't just handhold all those old peoples forever because you could destroy objects that were destroyed back in 2005-2007, look at all those other huge communities, they are faced with partial or complete destruction of their content on a constant basis and don't try to tell me "but people here pay real money for it", those people pay time and effort to create something that might be useless in the next engine version, time and effort is also money. People simply need to adapt, especially in something as variable and ever-changing as Second Life. Look, your need to make Second Life 2 basically comes from this mess, you want to make a better and faster Second Life with better technology? Why don't you start making Second Life a nice place first, start fixing all the old issues, disregarding to a certain degree how destructive these fixes may be. Fixing invisiprims in Deferred broke pretty much all goddamn clothing parts and avatars that were ever made that utilized some sort of special design, did you care there? No. What i'm trying to say is that Henri is not the only one, and his SUN issue is not the only issue you ignored. I'm pretty sure that you keep ignoring properly proposed and thought out improvements constantly, i'm sure pretty much everyone here can tell you stories about how many of their issues have been ignored and with that i don't mean issues like "i have a purple screen when i log out". I'm sure you have to do some very tough decisions, weighting possible problems against the actual value of a feature or fix but i honestly think that sometimes you don't even seem to consider something at all and again sometimes there will be sacrifices we have to take for a better future Second Life. THE reason i haven't been on any meetings anymore, because i got the feeling that you don't care or Linden Labs doesn't care and/or makes you not care about Second Life and if anyone says anything bad against anything you guys like it will be ignored or in worst case bashed. Yes Oz i'm talking about the lookat names feature and your very inappropriate pass to Jessica who seemed to have a lot of fun bashing another guy who is really worried about how this feature affects human behavior and drama in Second Life. I have been told that others tried going against this feature and they were just ignored/bashed as well. If that is the way "open source" and productive collaboration is supposed to be then i have no more interest in collaborating or giving any constructive feedback and/or offer solutions of any type or in any shape. I hope more people start speaking up and i hope it makes you reconsider your actions and thinking to a point where we can actually start working together for real. Niran. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150202/86bb1779/attachment.htm From labrat.hb at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 08:53:12 2015 From: labrat.hb at gmail.com (Harold Brown) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:53:12 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: The simple fact of the matter is. If you do not sign a code contribution agreement LL can NOT use your code. On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote: > On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:05:20 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > > > On 2015-01-31 07:53 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I know this should be posted in the JIRA, but apparently the comments > in > > > the existing issue (SUN-38) are not read or not taken into account by > > > Lindens. > > > > > > Please, to any and all Linden(s) involved in AHH, do read this post for > > > your own enlightement (and hopefully, a better and definitive solution > > > for the SL community as a whole): > > > http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1494&p=6890#p6890 > > > > > > Note that I'm beyond the point to care about whether this message will > > > be taken into account or not (so it's perfectly useless to enter a > > > sterile argument on this list about it). It's more like a bottled > > > message I throw into the sea... > > > > I won't speculate on whether or not we would have decided to do it > > differently had your suggestion actually been made when we were starting > > work on this months ago; the factors affecting avatar height and avatar > > vertical offset are quite complicated and it may or may not have been > > the right thing to do. I will say that your input would certainly have > > been considered had you been a part of the conversation at the time > > rather than posting a note on our private forum well after the fact. > > Are you ***kidding*** me ???? > > I have been attending quite a few Server group meetings with Nyx, and > you even were there once (for sure) or twice (can't swear on it), when > I spoke about the SUN-38 issue. > You will find several agendas with my entry about SUN-38, in the Wiki: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=henri+sun-38&fulltext=Search > Most of the corresponding transcripts are alas missing from the Wiki, > but I *did* explain my solution in at least two of those meetings > and I will point out one particular agenda, where I asked if SPEAKING > with a Linden about SUN-38 and the possible solutions would be at all > possible: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Archive/2013-04-29 > > It's not my fault if you keep shrugging off every remark or proposal > I make, or even refuse the dialog (in plain text, because I cannot > articulate well enough English neither understand English spoken > with the US American accent in real time). > I will not even bother quoting the various emails I sent to > *YOU*, Oz, and that you never replied (albeit about other subjects > than SUN-38), but if you want them, I could dig in my backups... > > > Despite the fact that you refuse to contribute your code, > > Again you are reverting the roles here !!!! > > I never refused to contribute my code: it's GPL and always said > that anyone (and yes, that includes *you* Lindens) could reuse it. > Also, each time someone asked for permissionto make my code LGPL > to be compatible with their own viewer, I always said "go for it !". > > What I refuse, however, is to sign a contribution agreement where > I would have to give private data to perfect strangers residing > in a foreign country that doesn't respect the privacy protection > Law of *my* country (or of any other country for that purpose). > You perfectly know this, for I explained it to you (and to Soft > Linden, your predecessor) countless times in emails, even going > down to give you pointers to paragraphs in the (English- > translated even !) French Law "Informatique et Libert?". > > I am not the one refusing to contribute my code, YOU are the one(s) > refusing to use my contributions because of stupid and pointless > lawyer-induced bureaucracy. It is *YOUR* choice and *YOUR* refusal, > not mine !!! > > > I'm happy to make sure that your input is considered if and when > > you provide it in a timely way; > > I am the very initiator of the SUN-38 issue, and if you re-read the > comments I made in it, my solution is exposed here as well (see > the comment posted on 22/Jun/14 10:58 AM, in reply to the Firestorm > team's proposal, i.e. QUITE in the TIMELY manner !!!). > > I ALWAYS gave pointers to major flaws and regressions, either in the > form of a JIRA issue, or directly via emails (to YOU !!!). So, > accusing me of not providing the info or not in a timely manner is > quite INSULTING and a pure LIE from your part. > > > I hope that in the future you'll chose to engage more productively. > > I hope that in the future, you will actually read the JIRAs I initiate, > the emails I send to you, the messages I post on the various boards and > blogs you DO frequent as well as I do (Nalate's blog, to cite just one). > I also hope that you will make the minimum effort to communicate in a > way that a non-English speaking person such as myself can actually > manage (Open Source meetings used to happen in CHAT and not in voice, > when Soft Linden was still there... and I DID tell you in one of your > first meetings that people like me COULDN'T attend your meetings because > of the language barrier: I can find the log, if you wish...). > > Now, I would *much* more prefer a clever and fruitful collaboration > to this sterile childish behaviour (ignoring me, then putting the > fault on me for not participating. I think that in 8+ years of SLing, > I *never stopped* participating !). > > A *pissed* off (BIG TIME !)... > > Henri. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150203/f2942fce/attachment-0001.htm From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Tue Feb 3 10:31:19 2015 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 19:31:19 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <54D113F7.6020009@eregion.de> The simple fact of the matter is that Henri believes that some parts of the LL contribution agreement violate french law, but neither him nor LL actually think of asking a lawyer to have a look if that is true or not. Am 03.02.2015 um 17:53 schrieb Harold Brown: > The simple fact of the matter is. If you do not sign a code > contribution agreement LL can NOT use your code. > > > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Henri Beauchamp > wrote: > > On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:05:20 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > > > On 2015-01-31 07:53 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I know this should be posted in the JIRA, but apparently the > comments in > > > the existing issue (SUN-38) are not read or not taken into > account by > > > Lindens. > > > > > > Please, to any and all Linden(s) involved in AHH, do read this > post for > > > your own enlightement (and hopefully, a better and definitive > solution > > > for the SL community as a whole): > > > http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1494&p=6890#p6890 > > > > > > Note that I'm beyond the point to care about whether this > message will > > > be taken into account or not (so it's perfectly useless to enter a > > > sterile argument on this list about it). It's more like a bottled > > > message I throw into the sea... > > > > I won't speculate on whether or not we would have decided to do it > > differently had your suggestion actually been made when we were > starting > > work on this months ago; the factors affecting avatar height and > avatar > > vertical offset are quite complicated and it may or may not have > been > > the right thing to do. I will say that your input would > certainly have > > been considered had you been a part of the conversation at the time > > rather than posting a note on our private forum well after the fact. > > Are you ***kidding*** me ???? > > I have been attending quite a few Server group meetings with Nyx, and > you even were there once (for sure) or twice (can't swear on it), when > I spoke about the SUN-38 issue. > You will find several agendas with my entry about SUN-38, in the Wiki: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=henri+sun-38&fulltext=Search > Most of the corresponding transcripts are alas missing from the Wiki, > but I *did* explain my solution in at least two of those meetings > and I will point out one particular agenda, where I asked if SPEAKING > with a Linden about SUN-38 and the possible solutions would be at all > possible: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Archive/2013-04-29 > > It's not my fault if you keep shrugging off every remark or proposal > I make, or even refuse the dialog (in plain text, because I cannot > articulate well enough English neither understand English spoken > with the US American accent in real time). > I will not even bother quoting the various emails I sent to > *YOU*, Oz, and that you never replied (albeit about other subjects > than SUN-38), but if you want them, I could dig in my backups... > > > Despite the fact that you refuse to contribute your code, > > Again you are reverting the roles here !!!! > > I never refused to contribute my code: it's GPL and always said > that anyone (and yes, that includes *you* Lindens) could reuse it. > Also, each time someone asked for permissionto make my code LGPL > to be compatible with their own viewer, I always said "go for it !". > > What I refuse, however, is to sign a contribution agreement where > I would have to give private data to perfect strangers residing > in a foreign country that doesn't respect the privacy protection > Law of *my* country (or of any other country for that purpose). > You perfectly know this, for I explained it to you (and to Soft > Linden, your predecessor) countless times in emails, even going > down to give you pointers to paragraphs in the (English- > translated even !) French Law "Informatique et Libert?". > > I am not the one refusing to contribute my code, YOU are the one(s) > refusing to use my contributions because of stupid and pointless > lawyer-induced bureaucracy. It is *YOUR* choice and *YOUR* refusal, > not mine !!! > > > I'm happy to make sure that your input is considered if and when > > you provide it in a timely way; > > I am the very initiator of the SUN-38 issue, and if you re-read the > comments I made in it, my solution is exposed here as well (see > the comment posted on 22/Jun/14 10:58 AM, in reply to the Firestorm > team's proposal, i.e. QUITE in the TIMELY manner !!!). > > I ALWAYS gave pointers to major flaws and regressions, either in the > form of a JIRA issue, or directly via emails (to YOU !!!). So, > accusing me of not providing the info or not in a timely manner is > quite INSULTING and a pure LIE from your part. > > > I hope that in the future you'll chose to engage more productively. > > I hope that in the future, you will actually read the JIRAs I > initiate, > the emails I send to you, the messages I post on the various > boards and > blogs you DO frequent as well as I do (Nalate's blog, to cite just > one). > I also hope that you will make the minimum effort to communicate in a > way that a non-English speaking person such as myself can actually > manage (Open Source meetings used to happen in CHAT and not in voice, > when Soft Linden was still there... and I DID tell you in one of your > first meetings that people like me COULDN'T attend your meetings > because > of the language barrier: I can find the log, if you wish...). > > Now, I would *much* more prefer a clever and fruitful collaboration > to this sterile childish behaviour (ignoring me, then putting the > fault on me for not participating. I think that in 8+ years of SLing, > I *never stopped* participating !). > > A *pissed* off (BIG TIME !)... > > Henri. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated > posting privileges > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150203/bc95496b/attachment.htm From sldev at free.fr Tue Feb 3 11:00:13 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 20:00:13 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <20150203200013.538ba3af.sldev@free.fr> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:53:12 -0800, Harold Brown wrote: > The simple fact of the matter is. If you do not sign a code > contribution agreement LL can NOT use your code. The code is (L)GPL. Anyone can reuse it and even if it had been my intention (and it never was and never will), I can't oppose to have my code reused (by anyone !) after I got it (L)GPLed. That's the whole point of the (L)GPL !!! As for an additional "safety measure" (lawyers' paranoia, obviously) such as a License agreement, I have always been ready to sign one if, and only if, I do not have to disclose my snail-mail address and phone number, both being beyond the purpose and requirements of a license agreement and being private data I won't give up for such a purpose (like the French Law allows and even encourages me). Oz knows that already. Anyway, it was not even question to reuse my code in the SUN-38 issue, for there was no code of mine (it's mostly server side stuff, anyway). It was just question of a suitable protocol definition so to address the actual issue behind SUN-38 (the avatar bounding box issue, even if a *side-effect* of being able to change the bounding box in the Z axis also allows to adjust the animations height and thus to address as well the animations issues). There has been at least one example in the past of a *great* and *benefical* discussion about a protocol definition (for Animation Overiders), you can see the archive for the corresponding thread here: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2012-April/008850.html and my main contribution to it here: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2012-April/008850.html a contribution which apparently was the base for the final protocol that LL implemented (which was finally 100% server-side (via scripts) and did indeed address all the points I raised), and a contribution for which I was thanked by Oz in an email. I had the hope the SUN-38 issue could have been dealt with with the same cleverness and efficiency... Failed ! It's beyond my comprehension that LL can't seem to be able to make use of the programming power and competences brought to them *for free* by OpenSource developers, and instead prefer to take the most arrogant stance and discourage them. What an incredible waste of resources !!! Henri. From tinacloud at gmx.de Tue Feb 3 11:11:40 2015 From: tinacloud at gmx.de (Zi Ree) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 20:11:40 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <20150203200013.538ba3af.sldev@free.fr> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <20150203200013.538ba3af.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <201502032011.40534.tinacloud@gmx.de> On Dienstag, 3. Februar 2015 20:00:13 Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > The simple fact of the matter is. If you do not sign a code > > contribution agreement LL can NOT use your code. > > The code is (L)GPL. Anyone can reuse it and even if it had been my > intention (and it never was and never will), I can't oppose to have > my code reused (by anyone !) after I got it (L)GPLed. That's the whole > point of the (L)GPL !!! Linden Lab needs more rights than the LGPL can give them. Namely, to relicense your code under a different license. That's why they can not just take what you have, but they need you to submit the code to them under the agreement that you transfer the rights to them. > and only if, I do not have to disclose my snail-mail address and phone > number, both being beyond the purpose and requirements of a license > agreement and being private data I won't give up for such a purpose To sign over your rights on the code they need to have a legal person on the other side. You. > Henri. Zi From carlo at alinoe.com Tue Feb 3 18:50:08 2015 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 03:50:08 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <20150204035008.7c6051bc@hikaru.localdomain> On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 20:49:49 +0100 Henri Beauchamp wrote: > Are you ***kidding*** me ???? etc... LOL - Henri, I respect you a LOT, for technical reasons. I even once told Oz that if you said something he better listen because it would be worthwhile. However, sometimes I wonder why you aren't being smarter than this :p At the time I was enthusiastic about working on an opensource viewer (even though that meant given my private info, which I agree is rather silly and annoying; and I understand why you refuse that)... That was before Oz - we worked on the viewer for a YEAR before finally being confronted with the fact that Linden Lab ('s internal coders) hadn't even LOOKED at our contributions and EVERYTHING we did had been /dev/null-ed and not used in their next release. I didn't reconfirmation: I left. Then Oz came and promised change: everyone would work on the same repository and be treated the same (Lindens and open source programmers a-like). I never believed that, but I gave him a chance: because of his promises I ported ALL of (one year) of work to the new code base. Then I gave them TWO MONTHS to merge my work - which failed; and I left again and never returned. By now (years and years later) it's a blatant fact that the above was a lie: Lindens and open source coders are still *not* being treated the same. Bottom line is. Linden Lab only uses and likes "invented here". The don't listen to others, nor are they interested in what others have to say. Things are STILL being developed behind closed doors mostly (and have been since the very beginning), that will never change. If you come with a good idea, it will be shrugged of. Trying to communicate with Linden Lab is a waste of your time. When the viewer developers figured this out and therefore concentrated on COOL INNOVATIVE stuff that they didn't NEED Linden Lab for; Linden Lab got very very frustrated, until they finally came with the Third Party Viewer ToS that literally forbids TPV devs to come with cool innovate stuff; so now it's again and 100% closed-door-"invented here"-Linden-Only stuff pushed out to some repository after which it is Oz's task to make sure all the TPV's copy and support the new functionality in the name of 'shared experience' etc. At no point in this development cycle they are going to listen to you, let alone do something (different) because of a bright insight that you have. Stop Wasting Your Time. Just let them kill SL in peace. Regards, Carlo Wood PS Needless to say that I completely agree with the technical point you have been making. But it's not just the hover height that is problematic lol. The whole animation (format) is useless. That format was never intended to be used by many different shapes (but only by a single shape, one that the animation is specifically intended for). However, if you accept that design error then what is really needed is neither a Z-offset nor a fake bounding box. What a viewer (script) would need control over are two reals: an offset and a (vertical) scaling factor. The problem is this: If an avatar of 2 meter is standing straight up, then -say- by default their feet are on the floor (tuned to be on server side). If the same avatar bends its knees so that the feet--pelvis distance decreases from 1 meter (say) to 0.4 meter (say), then its feet would be 0.6 meter above the ground because the pelvis height is fixed (well, the avatar center is, but that has the same height basically). Therefore, in order to get the feet on the ground again the used animation format includes an offset of -0.6m: moving the whole avatar down 0.6 meter. This is why this format is only usable for a single shape: that 0.6 meter is only fixed for a given shape. A smaller avatar, lets say one of 1.5 m (with otherwise the same shape) has thus a feet--pelvis distance of 1.5/2 = 0.75m. This is "known" by the server and corrected for: the pelvis is moved down 0.25m so that the feet touch the floor when standing up. Then, when that smaller avatar plays the same animation (made for the 2m tall one), it pulls up its feet 0.6/2*1.5 = 0.45 meter and the animation moves the whole avatar down 0.6 meter... resulting in the feet being buried 0.15m into the ground. The old way to "fix" this is by telling the server: Hey, I'm REALLY 1.8 meter tall (instead of 1.5m), causing the server to not move you down 0.25m but only 0.1m - causing the feet to precisely touch the ground again. I don't consider that a good solution :p. The new Hover solution is actually better - except that it was baked into the shape itself and isn't the correct way to fix this either - and therefore (like the first case) needs fast and dynamic changes (ie, every time you change animation) which is no longer possible - making it MUCH worse than what we used to have. Still, the Hover is just an offset and therefore not what we need. The main problem with both is that it only works for a static pose, not for an animation where the knees are bend and stretched again, like in certain dance animations, or in animation where someone goes from standing up to a (ground) sitting pose for example. In order to address those dynamic animations you need to make the vertical offset a function of this builtin-offset (in the animation), by allowing to provide a factor. In fact, that would work SO well for general humanoids that you can automate it and do away with Hover or whatever special user- or script defined variables that depend on the animation being played completely! Ie - ignore Hover, ignore whatever Linden Lab is working on now... Instead make the following implementation in your viewer: Let h = avatar (shape) height (when standing straight up). Let x = animation defined (dynamic) vertical offset. Let most animation be created for H = 2 meter tall avatars. Then avatar should be drawn with an offset of not x (like they are now), but with h / H * x. To apply that to the above examples: when standing up x=0, the 2m tall avatar when being it's knees would move 2/2*x=x down, still being x thus, still moving down 0.6 meter thus. The smaller avatar however would be drawn at 1.5/2*0.6=0.45 meter down, exactly as needed. Not that this is NOT a magic 0.15 meter offset, but a CORRECT scaling: the avatars feet touch the ground when standing up and while bending its knees all the way from the beginning of the animation to the end of the animation. From sldev at free.fr Wed Feb 4 02:05:12 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 11:05:12 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <20150204035008.7c6051bc@hikaru.localdomain> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <54CFBC60.3060400@lindenlab.com> <20150202204949.c1a2f9a8.sldev@free.fr> <20150204035008.7c6051bc@hikaru.localdomain> Message-ID: <20150204110512.1be91d44.sldev@free.fr> On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 03:50:08 +0100, Carlo Wood wrote: > However, > sometimes I wonder why you aren't being smarter than this :p Probably because I'm more stubborn than I am smart... :-P I don't give-up easily when I know "my way" is "the right way" to achieve a given result. > Linden Lab ('s internal coders) hadn't even LOOKED at our > contributions and EVERYTHING we did had been /dev/null-ed and > not used in their next release. I didn't reconfirmation: I left. Yes, it is exactly what I meant by "waste of resources" in my last message... It saddens me to no end when I see talented programmers giving up on SL because of LL's stance... The first one, of fond memories, was Nicholaz Beresford... It was before Oz' era too. > At the time I was enthusiastic about working on an opensource > viewer (even though that meant given my private info, which I > agree is rather silly and annoying; and I understand why you > refuse that)... That was before Oz .../... > Bottom line is. Linden Lab only uses and likes "invented here". > The don't listen to others, nor are they interested in what > others have to say. Yes, it has been a constant in LL's stance, and Oz is therefore not the (only) one to blame. LL's policy towards Open Source is simply inadequate and harmful... for themselves ! It is obvious and perfectly normal that LL must have the last word and make the final decision on SL's working and features. However, it is a pure waste of grey matter resources to dismiss or ignore proposals and just oppose a "the factors .../... are quite complicated" as an excuse for it, not even caring to discuss the matter, and first starting to expose their constraints and what complication(s) they encounter. We (the Open Source developers) may surprise them and come up with a solution they didn't think about... That's the whole point of collaborative work ! > .../... Trying to communicate with Linden Lab is a waste of your time. This is alas all too often true. However, sometimes, communication works (see the AO example I cited yesterday in my last message on this list). Thing is, I cannot infer from the various communication experiences with them a way to make sure my next proposal will be taken into account in a constructive fashion by LL... Their reactions to proposals are at best described as chaotic ! > Stop Wasting Your Time. Just let them kill SL in peace. It's not a total waste (the waste only happens when trying to communicate with LL and they don't listen/care). I like SL a lot. I love programming. It's fun as far as I am concerned. I also like challenges and I like to use my brain to solve problems. This said, should I get tired of it all and stop having fun in SL (because I'm a roleplayer too, and enjoy roleplaying in SL), then I'll definitely give up. Also, I took the "Your World, Your Imagination" motto to the letter, and Lindens should perhaps be reminded that motto from time to times... > PS Needless to say that I completely agree with the technical point you > have been making. But it's not just the hover height that is > problematic lol. The whole animation (format) is useless. The format lacks a single parameter: what bone (or more likely joint) shall stay in contact with the "ground" when a given "standing" (i.e. when the avatar is root and not "seated" on a prim) animation is played. We could call this parameter the "contact bone/joint". For a kneeling anim, it would be the knee joint, for a laying anim, it could be the shoulder joints or the spine bone, for a standing anim, the feet, etc... This could be one of the improvements in SL 2 (it's too late for SL 1) *if* LL already thought about it, or *if* they read this message... > .../... > The main problem with both is that it only works for a static pose, > not for an animation where the knees are bend and stretched again, > like in certain dance animations, or in animation where someone goes > from standing up to a (ground) sitting pose for example. You are perfectly right... and the height adjustment indeed can't suffice in the case of complex animations. One of the solutions (for SL 2), still retaining the "contact bone/joint" idea I described above would be to allow this reference to be changed on a per-frame basis. Note that the server-side "contact bone/joint" implementation would be quite complex and involve a much "smarter" physics engine or a much more complete description/implementation of an "avatar" in that engine (instead of dealing with a bounding box and its center position, the physics engine would have to deal with every avatar's bones/joints). Regards, Henri. From oz at lindenlab.com Wed Feb 4 06:18:39 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 06:18:39 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-02 10:42 , Nicky Perian wrote: > > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call > MSBuild or Devenv? > Neither - as you can see in the autobuild.xml configuration, it runs 'BuildConsole'. I don't see any value at all in maintaining compatibility with Express given that the Community Edition is closer to the Pro version we use; if anyone disagrees, by all means make your case but "because we used to do it that way" isn't going to be a strong argument. I'm pretty tied up in an internal planning conference this week (figuring out good things to do for Second Life in the coming several months), so please forgive me if my responses are even slower than usual. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/0de03bdc/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 07:18:12 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 09:18:12 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Underneath BuildConsole which I assume is a wrapper to prepare an internal build request likely calls Devenv or MSBuild. Both are available in Pro and CE. Express only has MSBuild. Building from a blank build-vc120 with Devenv provides a significant build time improvement over MSBuild. However, a note on MS's web page for Denenv indicate that MSBuild should be used. That note has been present since VS2010 release. My thoughts are that the note was there with aim of easing the transition for C# and .NET developers that had historically used MSBuild into C++. One additional point. Singularity Viewer project still uses develop.py and it internally calls devenv.com with no bad result, as far as I know. For the list: Should autobuild.xml call MSBuild or Devenv? On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > On 2015-02-02 10:42 , Nicky Perian wrote: > > > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild > or Devenv? > > > Neither - as you can see in the autobuild.xml configuration, it runs > 'BuildConsole'. > > I don't see any value at all in maintaining compatibility with Express > given that the Community Edition is closer to the Pro version we use; if > anyone disagrees, by all means make your case but "because we used to do it > that way" isn't going to be a strong argument. > > I'm pretty tied up in an internal planning conference this week (figuring > out good things to do for Second Life in the coming several months), so > please forgive me if my responses are even slower than usual. > > -- > *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | *Engineering Director, Second Life* > Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden > > Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces > Check out what we're working on! > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/c12890ba/attachment.htm From dzonatas at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 08:35:57 2015 From: dzonatas at gmail.com (Jonathan Ballard) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 08:35:57 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] HTTP Project Viewer & Source In-Reply-To: <52CB3345.2040201@lindenlab.com> References: <52CB3345.2040201@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: With another round of Net Neutrality on the table today, the interesting part with HTTP viewer is the potential for interactive HTML5 video (i.e. youtube). I imagined immersion controls that appear while in Google Maps with the focus on street view of Linden Lab. We have rendered overlays. It's that real-time window versus billboards that is the talk. Utility wise, that is Google's pegman versus SL avatar. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Monty Brandenberg wrote: > > Quick note to let everyone know that the next turn of the HTTP project > code is now available in source and project viewer form. HTTP Project > viewer can be found here: > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/93bf60f8/attachment-0001.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Wed Feb 4 08:42:58 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 09:42:58 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 4, 2015 at 8:18:19 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) wrote: Underneath BuildConsole which I assume is a wrapper to prepare an internal build request likely calls Devenv or MSBuild. Both are available in Pro and CE. Express only has MSBuild. Building from a blank build-vc120 with Devenv provides a significant build time improvement over MSBuild. However, a note on MS's web page for Denenv indicate that MSBuild should be used. That note has been present since VS2010 release. My thoughts are that the note was there with aim of easing the transition for C# and .NET developers that had historically used MSBuild into C++.? One additional point. Singularity Viewer project still uses develop.py and it internally calls devenv.com with no bad result, as far as I know. For the list: Should autobuild.xml call MSBuild or Devenv? Hi, You keep asking this question expecting another response, I guess. As stated both here and on jira, Microsoft recommends MSBuild going forward. All major build server products use MSBuild. Singularity uses MSBuild and only falls back to devenv.exe when MSBuild is not available or broken. VS Express is a dead product as Microsoft will no longer be making new versions of it. VC projects can be slower on MSBuild because it has to do some backflips to build them (they?re not in MSBuild format). MSBuild also supports options that devenv does not (like increased verbosity). Coincidently, the switch from devenv to MSBuild has very little to do with .NET and more to do with the removal of VCBuild on favour of MSBuild. In anything newer than VS2010 devenv just calls MSBuild anyway! Hope this helps. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/bbac9578/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 11:27:36 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 13:27:36 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Yes, I am being persistent and I will not let it drop til I get a definitive answer from Linden Lab. On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Cinder Roxley wrote: > On February 4, 2015 at 8:18:19 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) > wrote: > > Underneath BuildConsole which I assume is a wrapper to prepare an internal > build request likely calls Devenv or MSBuild. Both are available in Pro and > CE. Express only has MSBuild. > > Building from a blank build-vc120 with Devenv provides a significant build > time improvement over MSBuild. However, a note on MS's web page for Denenv > indicate that MSBuild should be used. That note has been present since > VS2010 release. My thoughts are that the note was there with aim of easing > the transition for C# and .NET developers that had historically used > MSBuild into C++. > > One additional point. Singularity Viewer project still uses develop.py and > it internally calls devenv.com with no bad result, as far as I know. > > For the list: > Should autobuild.xml call MSBuild or Devenv? > > > Hi, > > You keep asking this question expecting another response, I guess. As > stated both here and on jira, Microsoft recommends MSBuild going forward. > All major build server products use MSBuild. Singularity uses MSBuild and > only falls back to devenv.exe when MSBuild is not available or broken. VS > Express is a dead product as Microsoft will no longer be making new > versions of it. > > VC projects can be slower on MSBuild because it has to do some backflips > to build them (they?re not in MSBuild format). MSBuild also supports > options that devenv does not (like increased verbosity). Coincidently, the > switch from devenv to MSBuild has very little to do with .NET and more to > do with the removal of VCBuild on favour of MSBuild. In anything newer than > VS2010 devenv just calls MSBuild anyway! > > Hope this helps. > > -- > Cinder Roxley > Sent with Airmail > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/714cf7fc/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 13:20:32 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 15:20:32 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer develop.py correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't present in Express. {code} environment = self.find_visual_studio() if environment == '': environment = self.find_visual_studio_express() if environment == '': environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single() if environment == '': print >> sys.stderr, "Something went very wrong during build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?" else: build_dirs=self.build_dirs() print >> sys.stderr, "\nSolution generation complete, it can can now be found in:", build_dirs[0] print >> sys.stderr, "\nAs you are using an Express Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated" print >> sys.stderr, "\nPlease see https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions for Visual Studio Express specific information" exit(0) # devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much. return ('"%sdevenv.com" %s.sln /build %s' % (self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name, self.build_type)) {code} On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: > Yes, I am being persistent and I will not let it drop til I get a > definitive answer from Linden Lab. > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Cinder Roxley > wrote: > >> On February 4, 2015 at 8:18:19 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) >> wrote: >> >> Underneath BuildConsole which I assume is a wrapper to prepare an >> internal build request likely calls Devenv or MSBuild. Both are available >> in Pro and CE. Express only has MSBuild. >> >> Building from a blank build-vc120 with Devenv provides a significant >> build time improvement over MSBuild. However, a note on MS's web page for >> Denenv indicate that MSBuild should be used. That note has been present >> since VS2010 release. My thoughts are that the note was there with aim of >> easing the transition for C# and .NET developers that had historically used >> MSBuild into C++. >> >> One additional point. Singularity Viewer project still uses develop.py >> and it internally calls devenv.com with no bad result, as far as I know. >> >> For the list: >> Should autobuild.xml call MSBuild or Devenv? >> >> >> Hi, >> >> You keep asking this question expecting another response, I guess. As >> stated both here and on jira, Microsoft recommends MSBuild going forward. >> All major build server products use MSBuild. Singularity uses MSBuild and >> only falls back to devenv.exe when MSBuild is not available or broken. VS >> Express is a dead product as Microsoft will no longer be making new >> versions of it. >> >> VC projects can be slower on MSBuild because it has to do some backflips >> to build them (they?re not in MSBuild format). MSBuild also supports >> options that devenv does not (like increased verbosity). Coincidently, the >> switch from devenv to MSBuild has very little to do with .NET and more to >> do with the removal of VCBuild on favour of MSBuild. In anything newer than >> VS2010 devenv just calls MSBuild anyway! >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> -- >> Cinder Roxley >> Sent with Airmail >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/a136d50c/attachment.htm From holydoughnuts at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 13:53:29 2015 From: holydoughnuts at gmail.com (holydoughnuts) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 16:53:29 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> On 2/2/2015 1:42 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: > > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call > MSBuild or Devenv? > For what IncrediBuild does, see http://www.incredibuild.com/webhelp/distributing_vs_builds.html - it currently calls devenv, unless you force it to use msbuild thru the registry. buildconsole supports command flags compatible with either, so without that front end in place you'll want to watch your logs to make sure the commands make sense. From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Wed Feb 4 14:13:33 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 15:13:33 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) wrote: I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer develop.py correctly a command line build using?devenv.com?is executed each time it finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't present in Express. {code} ? ? ? ? environment = self.find_visual_studio() ? ? ? ? if environment == '': ? ? ? ? ? ? environment = self.find_visual_studio_express() ? ? ? ? ? ? if environment == '': ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single() ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if environment == '': ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print >> sys.stderr, "Something went very wrong during build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? build_dirs=self.build_dirs() ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print >> sys.stderr, "\nSolution generation complete, it can can now be found in:", build_dirs[0] ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print >> sys.stderr, "\nAs you are using an Express Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print >> sys.stderr, "\nPlease see?https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions?for Visual Studio Express specific information" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? exit(0) ? ?? Either you?ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or your sources are well out of date. -_- https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675 --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail ? ? ? ? #?devenv.com?is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much. ? ? ? ? return ('"%sdevenv.com" %s.sln /build %s' %? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name, self.build_type)) {code} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/2aa2aa25/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 15:17:19 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 17:17:19 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: To complete the record as a couple replies missed the list git pull / merge from singularity 1-20-2015 tip at hash 123ded50 by Inusaito Sayori 2015-01-20 16:44:22 origin https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer.git (fetch) the msbuild code was put in as an experiment by Shyotl on December 18. 2014 https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer/commit/e57bcea3b648bc13ceeb1a5b53a39d27cf103c30 I don't know when he actually pushed his branch but I assume it was after 1-20-2015. So it appears that msbuild has only been in use by Singularity for at most 2 weeks. My point is that devenv has been used for a very long time by Singularity with afaik no bad results. So, no my sources were not well out of date and no I did present a self edited code snip. On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Cinder Roxley wrote: > On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) > wrote: > > I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to > python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer > develop.py > correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it > finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't > present in Express. > {code} > environment = self.find_visual_studio() > if environment == '': > environment = self.find_visual_studio_express() > if environment == '': > environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single() > if environment == '': > print >> sys.stderr, "Something went very wrong during > build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?" > else: > build_dirs=self.build_dirs() > print >> sys.stderr, "\nSolution generation complete, > it can can now be found in:", build_dirs[0] > print >> sys.stderr, "\nAs you are using an Express > Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated" > print >> sys.stderr, "\nPlease see > https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions > for Visual Studio Express specific information" > exit(0) > > > Either you?ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or > your sources are well out of date. -_- > > https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675 > > -- > Cinder Roxley > Sent with Airmail > > > # devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much. > return ('"%sdevenv.com" %s.sln /build %s' % > (self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name, > self.build_type)) > {code} > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/80572f3c/attachment-0001.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 19:30:00 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 21:30:00 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: A look at the options below BuildConsole indicated that devenv is the underlying builder. devenv secondlife.sln /build "Release|Win32" would be the underlying command as neither of those options can be used with MSBuild. Release build arguments SecondLife.sln command BuildConsole options /build "/cfg=Release|Win32" configure arguments ..\indra && ..\indra\tools\vstool\VSTool.exe --solution SecondLife.sln --config Release --startup secondlife-bin options -G "Visual Studio 12" name Release On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: > To complete the record as a couple replies missed the list > git pull / merge from singularity 1-20-2015 > tip at hash 123ded50 > by Inusaito Sayori 2015-01-20 16:44:22 > origin https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer.git (fetch) > > the msbuild code was put in as an experiment by Shyotl on December 18. 2014 > > https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer/commit/e57bcea3b648bc13ceeb1a5b53a39d27cf103c30 > > I don't know when he actually pushed his branch but I assume it was after > 1-20-2015. > > So it appears that msbuild has only been in use by Singularity for at most > 2 weeks. > > My point is that devenv has been used for a very long time by Singularity > with afaik no bad results. > > So, no my sources were not well out of date and no I did present a self > edited code snip. > > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Cinder Roxley > wrote: > >> On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) >> wrote: >> >> I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to >> python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer >> develop.py >> correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it >> finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't >> present in Express. >> {code} >> environment = self.find_visual_studio() >> if environment == '': >> environment = self.find_visual_studio_express() >> if environment == '': >> environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single() >> if environment == '': >> print >> sys.stderr, "Something went very wrong >> during build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?" >> else: >> build_dirs=self.build_dirs() >> print >> sys.stderr, "\nSolution generation complete, >> it can can now be found in:", build_dirs[0] >> print >> sys.stderr, "\nAs you are using an Express >> Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated" >> print >> sys.stderr, "\nPlease see >> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions >> for Visual Studio Express specific information" >> exit(0) >> >> >> Either you?ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or >> your sources are well out of date. -_- >> >> https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675 >> >> -- >> Cinder Roxley >> Sent with Airmail >> >> >> # devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much. >> return ('"%sdevenv.com" %s.sln /build %s' % >> (self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name, >> self.build_type)) >> {code} >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/91e4a00d/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 19:50:34 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 21:50:34 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: https://www.incredibuild.com/frequently-asked-questions-technical.html#q4 Q: Can IncrediBuild be used from the command-line or from build scripts? A: Yes. IncrediBuild includes a strong command-line interface for building projects, which can easily be integrated in any script that runs msdev.exe/devenv.exe to build projects. In fact, BuildConsole.exe supports the devenv/msdev command line syntax so you would typically only need to replace the executable name in your script! On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: > A look at the options below BuildConsole indicated that devenv is the > underlying builder. > > devenv secondlife.sln /build "Release|Win32" > would be the underlying command as neither of those options can be used > with MSBuild. > > > Release > > build > > arguments > > SecondLife.sln > > command > BuildConsole > options > > /build > "/cfg=Release|Win32" > > > configure > > arguments > > ..\indra > && > ..\indra\tools\vstool\VSTool.exe > --solution > SecondLife.sln > --config > Release > --startup > secondlife-bin > > options > > -G > "Visual Studio 12" > > > name > Release > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Nicky Perian > wrote: > >> To complete the record as a couple replies missed the list >> git pull / merge from singularity 1-20-2015 >> tip at hash 123ded50 >> by Inusaito Sayori 2015-01-20 16:44:22 >> origin https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer.git >> (fetch) >> >> the msbuild code was put in as an experiment by Shyotl on December 18. >> 2014 >> >> https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer/commit/e57bcea3b648bc13ceeb1a5b53a39d27cf103c30 >> >> I don't know when he actually pushed his branch but I assume it was after >> 1-20-2015. >> >> So it appears that msbuild has only been in use by Singularity for at >> most 2 weeks. >> >> My point is that devenv has been used for a very long time by Singularity >> with afaik no bad results. >> >> So, no my sources were not well out of date and no I did present a self >> edited code snip. >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Cinder Roxley >> wrote: >> >>> On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) >>> wrote: >>> >>> I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to >>> python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer >>> develop.py >>> correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time >>> it finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't >>> present in Express. >>> {code} >>> environment = self.find_visual_studio() >>> if environment == '': >>> environment = self.find_visual_studio_express() >>> if environment == '': >>> environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single() >>> if environment == '': >>> print >> sys.stderr, "Something went very wrong >>> during build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?" >>> else: >>> build_dirs=self.build_dirs() >>> print >> sys.stderr, "\nSolution generation >>> complete, it can can now be found in:", build_dirs[0] >>> print >> sys.stderr, "\nAs you are using an Express >>> Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated" >>> print >> sys.stderr, "\nPlease see >>> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions >>> for Visual Studio Express specific information" >>> exit(0) >>> >>> >>> Either you?ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or >>> your sources are well out of date. -_- >>> >>> https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675 >>> >>> -- >>> Cinder Roxley >>> Sent with Airmail >>> >>> >>> # devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much. >>> return ('"%sdevenv.com" %s.sln /build %s' % >>> (self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name, >>> self.build_type)) >>> {code} >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150204/bc3812be/attachment-0001.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 03:41:16 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 05:41:16 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the input. Looks like incredibuild only uses msbuild when using Visual Studio Express. Based on the parameters in the Release section of autobuild.xml it appears that LL uses devenv. On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:53 PM, holydoughnuts wrote: > On 2/2/2015 1:42 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: > > > > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call > > MSBuild or Devenv? > > > > For what IncrediBuild does, see > http://www.incredibuild.com/webhelp/distributing_vs_builds.html - it > currently calls devenv, unless you force it to use msbuild thru the > registry. > > buildconsole supports command flags compatible with either, so without > that front end in place you'll want to watch your logs to make sure the > commands make sense. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150205/4f806447/attachment.htm From jhwelch at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 08:39:32 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 11:39:32 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: A few more configuration notes/issues: Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out of that package's tree? Autobuild is being fetched from Oz's bitbucket repository -- this should be moved to a generic lindenlab location. On 2/5/15, Nicky Perian wrote: > Thanks for the input. Looks like incredibuild only uses msbuild when using > Visual Studio Express. Based on the parameters in the Release section of > autobuild.xml it appears that LL uses devenv. > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:53 PM, holydoughnuts > wrote: > >> On 2/2/2015 1:42 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: >> > >> > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call >> > MSBuild or Devenv? >> > >> >> For what IncrediBuild does, see >> http://www.incredibuild.com/webhelp/distributing_vs_builds.html - it >> currently calls devenv, unless you force it to use msbuild thru the >> registry. >> >> buildconsole supports command flags compatible with either, so without >> that front end in place you'll want to watch your logs to make sure the >> commands make sense. >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > From jhwelch at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 10:54:55 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:54:55 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: This error probably should be addressed: Message template SHA_1 has not changed. jpeglib.lib(jerror.obj) : MSIL .netmodule or module compiled with /GL found; restarting link with /LTCG; add /LTCG to the link command line to improve linker performance On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Jonathan Welch wrote: > A few more configuration notes/issues: > > Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out > of that package's tree? > > Autobuild is being fetched from Oz's bitbucket repository -- this > should be moved to a generic lindenlab location. > > On 2/5/15, Nicky Perian wrote: >> Thanks for the input. Looks like incredibuild only uses msbuild when using >> Visual Studio Express. Based on the parameters in the Release section of >> autobuild.xml it appears that LL uses devenv. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:53 PM, holydoughnuts >> wrote: >> >>> On 2/2/2015 1:42 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: >>> > >>> > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call >>> > MSBuild or Devenv? >>> > >>> >>> For what IncrediBuild does, see >>> http://www.incredibuild.com/webhelp/distributing_vs_builds.html - it >>> currently calls devenv, unless you force it to use msbuild thru the >>> registry. >>> >>> buildconsole supports command flags compatible with either, so without >>> that front end in place you'll want to watch your logs to make sure the >>> commands make sense. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >> From jhwelch at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:06:50 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 14:06:50 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here is another glitch that should be addressed: Unable to read versionfile 'E:/ss/STORM-0/build-vc120/newview/viewer_version.txt' Traceback (most recent call last): File "E:/ss/STORM-0/indra/newview/viewer_manifest.py", line 1210, in main() File "E:/ss/STORM-0/indra/newview\..\lib\python\indra\util\llmanifest.py", line 212, in main vf = open(args['versionfile'], 'r') IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'E:/ss/STORM-0/build-vc120/newview/viewer_version.txt' C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets(170,5): error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 1. On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Jonathan Welch wrote: > This error probably should be addressed: > > Message template SHA_1 has not changed. > jpeglib.lib(jerror.obj) : MSIL .netmodule or module compiled with > /GL found; restarting link with /LTCG; add /LTCG to the link command > line to improve linker performance > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Jonathan Welch wrote: >> A few more configuration notes/issues: >> >> Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out >> of that package's tree? >> >> Autobuild is being fetched from Oz's bitbucket repository -- this >> should be moved to a generic lindenlab location. >> >> On 2/5/15, Nicky Perian wrote: >>> Thanks for the input. Looks like incredibuild only uses msbuild when using >>> Visual Studio Express. Based on the parameters in the Release section of >>> autobuild.xml it appears that LL uses devenv. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:53 PM, holydoughnuts >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2/2/2015 1:42 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call >>>> > MSBuild or Devenv? >>>> > >>>> >>>> For what IncrediBuild does, see >>>> http://www.incredibuild.com/webhelp/distributing_vs_builds.html - it >>>> currently calls devenv, unless you force it to use msbuild thru the >>>> registry. >>>> >>>> buildconsole supports command flags compatible with either, so without >>>> that front end in place you'll want to watch your logs to make sure the >>>> commands make sense. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>>> privileges >>>> >>> From jhwelch at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 13:32:32 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 16:32:32 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: Some timing stats: VS2010 full build: 25 minutes of which 2 minutes are link time VS2013 full build: 30 minutes of which 1 minute 35 seconds are link time This link time might even get a little faster if the bug/issue I reported a few hours ago is addressed. From sldev at free.fr Fri Feb 6 00:59:45 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 09:59:45 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature In-Reply-To: <201502032011.40534.tinacloud@gmx.de> References: <20150131135359.1a7143c9.sldev@free.fr> <20150203200013.538ba3af.sldev@free.fr> <201502032011.40534.tinacloud@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20150206095945.6ec3eaf7.sldev@free.fr> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 20:11:40 +0100, Zi Ree wrote: > On Dienstag, 3. Februar 2015 20:00:13 Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > > and only if, I do not have to disclose my snail-mail address and phone > > number, both being beyond the purpose and requirements of a license > > agreement and being private data I won't give up for such a purpose > > To sign over your rights on the code they need to have a legal person on the > other side. You. My address and phone number are not needed to establish the "legal person" condition: all they need is my real name and signature on the document, which I'm ready to provide them with. To show you how ridiculous the address and phone number requirements are, I'll just say that I moved already 5 times in my life and changed at least 8 times from phone number !!! Not only this information is subject to change at any time but none of the signees of LL's License agreement are required to inform LL about their address of phone number changes. Legally, all what is required to establish an identity from a document is the name and signature it bears. The rest is "excessive for the purpose", something the French Law "Informatique et Libert?" forbids to require from a signee. Henri. From nickyperian at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 15:55:47 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 17:55:47 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: The issue was in fact paths. Operating with in the Developer Command Prompt for VS2013 requires a path of: C:\cwgwin64\bin;C:\cygwin64\usr\bin Reason: coreutils which contains printf and a host of other bash commands resides in C:\cygwin64\bin. Flex and Bison are installed in C:\cygwin64\usr\bin. So from Developer Command Prompt for VS2013 you can reach printf and flex and bison. Now the kicker if you now open the Cygwin64 Terminal the aforementioned C:\cygwin64\bin and C:\Cygwin64\usr\bin are mangled by cygwin64's remake of the path into the form /cygdrive/c/... and writes usr/bin;usr/bin in the path which breaks the path in Cygwin64 Terminal. If you don't include C:\cygwin64\bin and C:\Cygwin64\usr\bin in the path then cygwin64 is smart enough to figure it out and printf works in the Cygwin64 Terminal but, now it is broken in the Developer Command Prompt for VS2013. I'm thinking a workaround for this is to begin each windows batch file with a path command the appends C:\cwgwin64\bin;C:\cygwin64\usr\bin but do not put those in the system path. On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < oz at lindenlab.com> wrote: > On 2015-01-31 17:38 , Nicky Perian wrote: > > Anyone know what causes this on a release build? > Doesn't stop the build and the installer is still made. > 3>------ Build started: Project: generate_viewer_version, Configuration: > Release Win32 ------ > 3> processing > 3> 'printf' is not recognized as an internal or external command, > 3> operable program or batch file. > 3>C:\Program Files > (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets(170,5): > error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 9009. > > Appears to come from newview/CMakeLists.txt > source_group("CMake Rules" FILES ViewerInstall.cmake) > > # the viewer_version.txt file created here is for passing to > viewer_manifest and autobuild > # the summary.json file is created for the benefit of the TeamCity builds, > where > # it is used to provide descriptive information to the build results page > add_custom_target(generate_viewer_version ALL > COMMAND printf > '${VIEWER_SHORT_VERSION}.${VIEWER_VERSION_REVISION}' > > ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/viewer_version.txt > COMMAND printf > '{"Type":"viewer","Version":"${VIEWER_SHORT_VERSION}.${VIEWER_VERSION_REVISION}"}' > > ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/summary.json > COMMENT Generating viewer_version.txt for manifest > processing > ) > > > That looks like cmake is trying to run commands in a windows shell rather > than bash; the printf is a bash command. This works in our build > environment. It's possible that it could be replaced with cmake FILE > commands? > > -- > *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | *Engineering Director, Second Life* > Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden > > Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces > Check out what we're working on! > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150206/d9c5efbf/attachment.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Fri Feb 6 16:12:43 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 17:12:43 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 6, 2015 at 4:54:10 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) wrote: The issue was in fact paths. Operating with in the?Developer Command Prompt for VS2013 requires a path of: C:\cwgwin64\bin;C:\cygwin64\usr\bin Reason: coreutils which contains printf and a host of other bash commands resides in C:\cygwin64\bin. Flex and Bison are installed in C:\cygwin64\usr\bin.? So from Developer Command Prompt for VS2013 you can reach printf and flex and bison. Now the kicker if you now open the Cygwin64 ?Terminal the aforementioned C:\cygwin64\bin and C:\Cygwin64\usr\bin are mangled by cygwin64's remake of the path into the form /cygdrive/c/... and writes usr/bin;usr/bin in the path which breaks the path in Cygwin64 ?Terminal. If you don't include C:\cygwin64\bin and C:\Cygwin64\usr\bin in the path then cygwin64 is smart enough to figure it out and printf works in the Cygwin64 ?Terminal but, now it is broken in the Developer Command Prompt for VS2013.? I'm thinking a workaround for this is to begin each windows batch file with a path command the appends C:\cwgwin64\bin;C:\cygwin64\usr\bin but do not put those in the system path. Hi, It would simply things greatly to remove lscript from the viewer completely, thereby removing the dependency on flex/bison for building. lscript is unused other than a few const values. Several tpvs have dropped lscript from the build. (I?ve personally done that in two different tpv projects.) Is this something Linden Lab would be willing to consider? I?d be happy to do the work to remove it if it is. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150206/5c950273/attachment.htm From holydoughnuts at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 02:37:26 2015 From: holydoughnuts at gmail.com (holydoughnuts) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 05:37:26 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Re: Jonathan's attempt to rearrange the graphics preferences In-Reply-To: <54C3D6C6.8060406@lindenlab.com> References: <000001d037af$cf4e3d00$6deab700$@gmx.net> <54C3D6C6.8060406@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D5EAE6.1050802@gmail.com> Is there any plan in the works to send RenderAutoMuteRenderWeightLimit back to the server, and make stats available to users somehow thru the viewer or LSL? That would take a lot of guesswork out of when to stop adding junk to one's avatar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/3742b333/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 06:14:31 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 08:14:31 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is this going to need a library rebuild to correct? Adding /LTCG seems to make the build slower. Is there another solution? 33> Message template SHA_1 has not changed. 33> jpeglib.lib(jerror.obj) : MSIL .netmodule or module compiled with /GL found; restarting link with /LTCG; add /LTCG to the link command line to improve linker performance 33> Creating library C:/Users/bill/newtools/viewer-tools-update/build-vc120/newview/Release/secondlife-bin.lib and object C:/Users/bill/newtools/viewer-tools-update/build-vc120/newview/Release/secondlife-bin.exp 33> Message template SHA_1 has not changed. 33> jpeglib.lib(jerror.obj) : MSIL .netmodule or module compiled with /GL found; restarting link with /LTCG; add /LTCG to the link command line to improve linker performance 33> Creating library C:/Users/bill/newtools/viewer-tools-update/build-vc120/newview/Release/secondlife-bin.lib and object C:/Users/bill/newtools/viewer-tools-update/build-vc120/newview/Release/secondlife-bin.exp On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Jonathan Welch wrote: > Some timing stats: > > VS2010 full build: 25 minutes of which 2 minutes are link time > > VS2013 full build: 30 minutes of which 1 minute 35 seconds are link time > > This link time might even get a little faster if the bug/issue I > reported a few hours ago is addressed. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/989dca4f/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Sat Feb 7 14:13:23 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 14:13:23 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-06 16:12 , Cinder Roxley wrote: > It would simply things greatly to remove lscript from the viewer > completely, thereby removing the dependency on flex/bison for > building. lscript is unused other than a few const values. Several > tpvs have dropped lscript from the build. (I?ve personally done that > in two different tpv projects.) > > Is this something Linden Lab would be willing to consider? I?d be > happy to do the work to remove it if it is. > > What would the end user effect be? -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/d290c427/attachment.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Sat Feb 7 14:24:25 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 15:24:25 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 7, 2015 at 3:13:31 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) (oz at lindenlab.com) wrote: On 2015-02-06 16:12 , Cinder Roxley wrote: It would simply things greatly to remove lscript from the viewer completely, thereby removing the dependency on flex/bison for building. lscript is unused other than a few const values. Several tpvs have dropped lscript from the build. (I?ve personally done that in two different tpv projects.) Is this something Linden Lab would be willing to consider? I?d be happy to do the work to remove it if it is. What would the end user effect be? The change would be transparent for the user other than saving them a small amount of space on their hard drive. I have no idea what the final size of lscript is when compiled, but it?s basically all dead and broken code and has been for several years. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/d3f4401e/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Sat Feb 7 14:31:29 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 14:31:29 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D69241.3040608@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-07 14:24 , Cinder Roxley wrote: > The change would be transparent for the user other than saving them a > small amount of space on their hard drive. I have no idea what the > final size of lscript is when compiled, but it?s basically all dead > and broken code and has been for several years. > If that's true, by all means let's kill it. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/0a62fa74/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Sat Feb 7 14:36:29 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 14:36:29 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Jonathan's attempt to rearrange the graphics preferences In-Reply-To: <54D5EAE6.1050802@gmail.com> References: <000001d037af$cf4e3d00$6deab700$@gmx.net> <54C3D6C6.8060406@lindenlab.com> <54D5EAE6.1050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54D6936D.8000400@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-07 02:37 , holydoughnuts wrote: > Is there any plan in the works to send RenderAutoMuteRenderWeightLimit > back to the server, and make stats available to users somehow thru the > viewer or LSL? That would take a lot of guesswork out of when to stop > adding junk to one's avatar. Yes. That's not quite how we plan to do it - instead, the viewer will just send back a boolean that indicates whether or not it is rendering each avatar it can see (but not the reason why if not). Some aggregate information derived from that (tbd) will then be made available to each avatar so that they can tell whether or not they are being rendered - ideally without being able to tell much about by whom. Watch this space. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/68109984/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Sat Feb 7 14:41:15 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 14:41:15 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-05 08:39 , Jonathan Welch wrote: > A few more configuration notes/issues: > > Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out > of that package's tree? No, that's where Python wants it. > Autobuild is being fetched from Oz's bitbucket repository -- this > should be moved to a generic lindenlab location. In time, it will be, but not until we've completed the transition to using the new version everywhere. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/963412cc/attachment-0001.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Sat Feb 7 14:48:40 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 14:48:40 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D22A3F.9080208@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D69648.6050003@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-04 11:27 , Nicky Perian wrote: > Yes, I am being persistent and I will not let it drop til I get a > definitive answer from Linden Lab. > Ok - if any of the following sounds harsh, it's not meant to be, and it should not be taken as critical of anyone - it's written this way so that it will be as clear and definitive as I can be: * Look at what we do in the 'Release' configuration. We want open source builds to be as close to that as we can possibly make them (because it maximizes the chances we can use contributions easily). * We do not care about and will not accept changes to support building with more than one version of Visual Studio. If a case can be made that there is a better choice than the Community Edition, feel free to make it but pending that case being made that's the choice. * How TPVs that are not following our build system evolution and have not been for some time are doing things is not of interest. Is there any more clarity needed? I and my team have been somewhat disconnected lately doing our not-really-sekrit planning sessions, but they're done (I'm writing this on the plane home); we'll try to get re-engaged on the issues of getting any required changes made. We appreciate your patience. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/73de9e7c/attachment.htm From secret.argent at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 17:09:47 2015 From: secret.argent at gmail.com (Argent Stonecutter) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 19:09:47 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On 2015-02-07, at 16:24, Cinder Roxley wrote: > On February 7, 2015 at 3:13:31 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) (oz at lindenlab.com) wrote: >> On 2015-02-06 16:12 , Cinder Roxley wrote: >>> It would simply things greatly to remove lscript from the viewer completely, thereby removing the dependency on flex/bison for building. lscript is unused other than a few const values. Several tpvs have dropped lscript from the build. (I?ve personally done that in two different tpv projects.) >>> Is this something Linden Lab would be willing to consider? I?d be happy to do the work to remove it if it is. >> What would the end user effect be? > The change would be transparent for the user other than saving them a small amount of space on their hard drive. I have no idea what the final size of lscript is when compiled, but it?s basically all dead and broken code and has been for several years. Doesn't the script editor use it for syntax coloring? Or has it dropped back to using a more simplistic algorithm? From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Sat Feb 7 17:25:12 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 18:25:12 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 7, 2015 at 6:09:54 PM, Argent Stonecutter (secret.argent at gmail.com) wrote: On 2015-02-07, at 16:24, Cinder Roxley wrote:? > On February 7, 2015 at 3:13:31 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) (oz at lindenlab.com) wrote:? >> On 2015-02-06 16:12 , Cinder Roxley wrote:? >>> It would simply things greatly to remove lscript from the viewer completely, thereby removing the dependency on flex/bison for building. lscript is unused other than a few const values. Several tpvs have dropped lscript from the build. (I?ve personally done that in two different tpv projects.)? >>> Is this something Linden Lab would be willing to consider? I?d be happy to do the work to remove it if it is.? >> What would the end user effect be?? > The change would be transparent for the user other than saving them a small amount of space on their hard drive. I have no idea what the final size of lscript is when compiled, but it?s basically all dead and broken code and has been for several years.? Doesn't the script editor use it for syntax coloring? Or has it dropped back to using a more simplistic algorithm?? Syntax highlighting is handled by LLSyntaxID now. This allows it to be dynamically updated by a region cap and not hardcoded into the viewer. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/3ed64bb6/attachment.htm From holydoughnuts at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 17:27:43 2015 From: holydoughnuts at gmail.com (holydoughnuts) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 20:27:43 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D6BB8F.30100@gmail.com> On 2/7/2015 8:09 PM, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > Doesn't the script editor use it for syntax coloring? Or has it > dropped back to using a more simplistic algorithm? The highlight info is now supplied by app_settings/keywords_lsl_default.xml, with updates downloaded from the server as needed. So, the viewer-side compiler is redundant now. From secret.argent at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 17:28:25 2015 From: secret.argent at gmail.com (Argent) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 19:28:25 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54C905E7.2080607@lindenlab.com> <599689801.190183.1422743931819.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC109.9000209@lindenlab.com> <54D68E03.8080809@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Ok, well, I'll be sad to see lscript go, I had some good times there, but it makes sense. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150207/cb5ececf/attachment.htm From jhwelch at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 18:08:44 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 21:08:44 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: > Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out > of that package's tree? > > No, that's where Python wants it. > Just for fun I moved the Scripts directory out from under where python is installed, adjusted my path accordingly, and was able to configure and compile just fine. Also, I am curious: is all this pip and easy install business doing more than just fetching autobuild.exe? From sl.nicky.ml at googlemail.com Mon Feb 9 03:59:54 2015 From: sl.nicky.ml at googlemail.com (Nicky D.) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:59:54 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: > > > Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out > of that package's tree? > > You can try to install it into its own virtual-env. I do that with llbase. autobuild itself I run just from a bitbucket clone. So I did not try to put it into a virtual-env, but that should too. Nicky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150209/def7d157/attachment.htm From dzonatas at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 06:47:44 2015 From: dzonatas at gmail.com (Jonathan Ballard) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 06:47:44 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:59 AM, Nicky D. wrote: > >> Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out >> of that package's tree? >> >> > You can try to install it into its own virtual-env. > Mmhmm. I wanted more communication about conversion of C++, python, and other scripts to .NET, but that is Microsoft's (tooling) agenda. Note the benefits of compiled down, native AOT, "blueprinted" resources versus the virtual-simulated "fast-food" environment. Lindens are probably interested in the GCC compiler module that will do that, or Lindens are interested in someone that can do that more privately, like Microsoft. Imagine if Linden Lab only published CILs instead of C++/python source. It's leveraging the pass-through video modes, which is why it didn't work with wine.org. It could. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150209/9b709e1c/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Mon Feb 9 08:50:46 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 11:50:46 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-07 21:08 , Jonathan Welch wrote: > Also, I am curious: is all this pip and easy install business doing > more than just fetching autobuild.exe? It depends on whether or not your system already has all the prerequisites that autobuild needs (which have changed). The point of using pip is that it fetches and installs them if you need them (and easy_install is needed to bootstrap pip). -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150209/3becd592/attachment.htm From jack at raspberrypi.org Tue Feb 10 11:19:02 2015 From: jack at raspberrypi.org (Jack Lang) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:19:02 +0000 Subject: [opensource-dev] Raspberry Pi 2? Message-ID: <2baa1ff5f2d342189cd4f7be9b30a487@SEHSTE15D1BE6.hs20.net> Anyone porting a viewer to Raspberry Pi 2 (quad core Arm7)? Any hints ? Jack Lang Raspberry Pi Foundation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150210/4d61ef6c/attachment.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Tue Feb 10 11:55:33 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:55:33 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Raspberry Pi 2? In-Reply-To: <2baa1ff5f2d342189cd4f7be9b30a487@SEHSTE15D1BE6.hs20.net> References: <2baa1ff5f2d342189cd4f7be9b30a487@SEHSTE15D1BE6.hs20.net> Message-ID: On February 10, 2015 at 12:19:09 PM, Jack Lang (jack at raspberrypi.org) wrote: ? Anyone porting a viewer to Raspberry Pi 2 (quad core Arm7)? Any hints?? Jack Lang Raspberry Pi Foundation If they?d stay in stock long enough for me to get through checkout, I?d have one to try it out. ;) Gonna take a lot of GL changes to get it running on ARM though. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150210/8f92a8db/attachment.htm From dana.virtual at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 11:56:55 2015 From: dana.virtual at gmail.com (Dana Moore) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 14:56:55 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Raspberry Pi 2? In-Reply-To: <2baa1ff5f2d342189cd4f7be9b30a487@SEHSTE15D1BE6.hs20.net> References: <2baa1ff5f2d342189cd4f7be9b30a487@SEHSTE15D1BE6.hs20.net> Message-ID: <6D16542D-4D7D-43CA-A94D-416D50BD7E3E@gmail.com> I have a slightly different question which is does anyone know of any high barriers to porting the _server_ (for example Doug Maxwell?s MOSES / OpenSim implementation) to a PI 2. I have a feeling it ought to be a handsome server, especially in a server grid (granted no heavyweight GPU capabilities, but still ? ). BTW, I _think_ the spec is an ARM11 quad core for the 2 IIRC. Best, > On Feb 10, 2015, at 2:19 PM, Jack Lang wrote: > > > Anyone porting a viewer to Raspberry Pi 2 (quad core Arm7)? Any hints ? > Jack Lang > Raspberry Pi Foundation > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150210/9a751e96/attachment.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Tue Feb 10 12:01:09 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:01:09 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Raspberry Pi 2? In-Reply-To: <6D16542D-4D7D-43CA-A94D-416D50BD7E3E@gmail.com> References: <2baa1ff5f2d342189cd4f7be9b30a487@SEHSTE15D1BE6.hs20.net> <6D16542D-4D7D-43CA-A94D-416D50BD7E3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: On February 10, 2015 at 12:57:11 PM, Dana Moore (dana.virtual at gmail.com) wrote: I have a slightly different question which is does anyone know of any high barriers to porting the _server_ (for example Doug Maxwell?s MOSES / OpenSim implementation) to a PI 2. I have a feeling it ought to be a handsome server, especially in a server grid (granted no heavyweight GPU capabilities, but still ? ). BTW, I _think_ the spec is an ARM11 quad core for the 2 IIRC. I?ve run opensim from a Raspberry Pi B+ and seen others do it as well, so yes, it should be able to run MIAB. At least the simulator portion. I?m not entirely sure what MIAB consists of, (like if it includes the voice server or not). --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150210/aea8aa32/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 16:33:13 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 18:33:13 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Mac viewer-tools-update build environment setup procedures Message-ID: I've not seen specific procedures to set the build environment for Mac. May be that I just missed it along the way. Is there a build environment wiki for Mac? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150211/440b91ba/attachment.htm From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Wed Feb 11 16:40:06 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 17:40:06 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Mac viewer-tools-update build environment setup procedures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On February 11, 2015 at 5:33:19 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyperian at gmail.com) wrote: I've not seen specific procedures to set the build environment for Mac. May be that I just missed it along the way. Is there a build environment wiki for Mac? Nothing has changed in that regard except upgrading to Xcode 6.?https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(Mac_OS_X) --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150211/1633b09e/attachment.htm From jhwelch at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 09:48:47 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:48:47 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Just a fyi, until the error in the file copy section is fixed (reported earlier in this thread) the first build fails with one error. The second time you build, the files are copied and you are then good to go. From jhwelch at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 16:46:38 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 19:46:38 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: In case this bug was missed and/or not fixed the first time I reported it here it is again. The first time building does not succeed: ------ Build started: Project: copy_w_viewer_manifest, Configuration: Release Win32 ------ Building Custom Rule E:/ss/STORM-0/indra/newview/CMakeLists.txt CMake does not need to re-run because E:\ss\STORM-0\build-vc120\newview\CMakeFiles\generate.stamp is up-to-date. Performing viewer_manifest copy Source tree: E:\ss\STORM-0\indra\newview Artwork tree: . Build tree: E:\ss\STORM-0\build-vc120\newview Destination tree: E:\ss\STORM-0\build-vc120\newview\Release Unable to read versionfile 'E:/ss/STORM-0/build-vc120/newview/viewer_version.txt' Traceback (most recent call last): File "E:/ss/STORM-0/indra/newview/viewer_manifest.py", line 1210, in main() File "E:/ss/STORM-0/indra/newview\..\lib\python\indra\util\llmanifest.py", line 212, in main vf = open(args['versionfile'], 'r') IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'E:/ss/STORM-0/build-vc120/newview/viewer_version.txt' C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets(170,5): error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 1. From oz at lindenlab.com Sat Feb 14 05:41:09 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:41:09 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Mac viewer-tools-update build environment setup procedures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54DF5075.3080404@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-11 19:33 , Nicky Perian wrote: > I've not seen specific procedures to set the build environment for > Mac. May be that I just missed it along the way. > > Is there a build environment wiki for Mac? We'll do an update to that page soon, but for now, as Cinder said you need to upgrade to the current Xcode (6.1) and install the new autobuild. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150214/3be994d6/attachment.htm From jhwelch at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 16:50:23 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 19:50:23 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: I just started up VS2013 and was exploring some of the windows and menus and discovered that my trial license is only good for 30 days. The instructions should cover what to do to obtain a long-term license. Warning window: http://i.imgur.com/RwTzJxH.png From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Sat Feb 21 17:15:19 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 18:15:19 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: On February 21, 2015 at 5:50:42 PM, Jonathan Welch (jhwelch at gmail.com) wrote: I just started up VS2013 and was exploring some of the windows and? menus and discovered that my trial license is only good for 30 days.? The instructions should cover what to do to obtain a long-term? license.? Warning window: http://i.imgur.com/RwTzJxH.png? The warning window explains what to do to obtain a license. (You need to sign in with a valid Microsoft account.) In my opinion, acquiring licenses for the build tools falls out of scope. Don?t want it to get too long or everyone starts skipping steps. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150221/69b13e4c/attachment.htm From jhwelch at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 02:58:21 2015 From: jhwelch at gmail.com (Jonathan Welch) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 05:58:21 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: Yes, the warning window says what to do, but it was only by chance that I saw that message, so better to have mention of this necessary step in the instructions than to have your compiler fail to run. Also, some people may not want to supply a birthdate and phone number, so before they begin this installation process it is better to know about these requirements in advance. On 2/21/15, Cinder Roxley wrote: > On February 21, 2015 at 5:50:42 PM, Jonathan Welch (jhwelch at gmail.com) > wrote: > I just started up VS2013 and was exploring some of the windows and > menus and discovered that my trial license is only good for 30 days. > The instructions should cover what to do to obtain a long-term > license. > > Warning window: http://i.imgur.com/RwTzJxH.png > The warning window explains what to do to obtain a license. (You need to > sign in with a valid Microsoft account.) In my opinion, acquiring licenses > for the build tools falls out of scope. Don?t want it to get too long or > everyone starts skipping steps. > > -- > Cinder Roxley > Sent with Airmail From darien.caldwell at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 11:09:30 2015 From: darien.caldwell at gmail.com (Darien Caldwell) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:09:30 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <54CBFA6F.3030902@lindenlab.com> <361448672.144200.1422722470573.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <54CFC247.1010206@lindenlab.com> <54D294D9.4060209@gmail.com> <54D6948B.2000505@lindenlab.com> <54D8E566.5070604@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: While the signup does require a birth date (any birth date, hint-hint), the phone Number is optional. On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Jonathan Welch wrote: > Yes, the warning window says what to do, but it was only by chance > that I saw that message, so better to have mention of this necessary > step in the instructions than to have your compiler fail to run. > > Also, some people may not want to supply a birthdate and phone number, > so before they begin this installation process it is better to know > about these requirements in advance. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150222/a7c6223a/attachment.htm From wolfpup67 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 24 13:22:29 2015 From: wolfpup67 at earthlink.net (Wolfpup Lowenhar) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 16:22:29 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help Message-ID: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> Recently I started working on getting set up with VS2013 build system and I have it running fairly smoothly. I have with the help of another member on this list gotten it so that I can build the plug-ins including QuickTime(prop 3-p lib) which you have to have the sdk installed on your system. Now that that is working I found that there is an issue with the QuickTime SDK when building with VS2013. I'm getting two fatal errors and thus the lib dose not build. I still have the VS2010 build system running just fine and I'm trying to figure out how to get it so that the QuickTime lib will build with both at least until the new build system is fully adopted. Here is the two errors from the VS2013 media_plugini_QuickTim.log file 1>C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime SDK\CIncludes\fp.h(89): error C2371: 'float_t' : redefinition; different basic types C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 12.0\VC\include\math.h(67) : see declaration of 'float_t' 1>C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime SDK\CIncludes\fp.h(122): warning C4005: 'NAN' : macro redefinition C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 12.0\VC\include\math.h(106) : see previous definition of 'NAN' 1>Done Building Project "D:\HG\viewer-tools-update\build-vc120\media_plugins\quicktime\media_plugin_ quicktime.vcxproj" (Build target(s)) -- FAILED. Now these errors do not happen when I'm building from the release branch using VS2010. I will at a later date post out my patch for adding a switch for OS developers to use to add QuickTime to their builds once I figure out how to get around these errors. I just need to figure out how to block this in VS2013 and not in VS2010 then all should be good. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4299/9173 - Release Date: 02/24/15 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150224/b358f835/attachment.htm From nickyperian at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 13:37:21 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> Message-ID: Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered as content in an archive. For quicktime this is more licence friendly by delivering the dll instead on the components needed to build the dll in the viewer. That is likely not the complete reason for packaging but, it is cleaner. Once LL releases 3p-update-slplugins then developers should be a able to build this archive. http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/slplugins_3p-update-slplugins/rev/298079/arch/CYGWIN/installer/slplugins-3.7.24.297623.298079-windows-298079.tar.bz2 On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Wolfpup Lowenhar wrote: > Recently I started working on getting set up with VS2013 build system and > I have it running fairly smoothly. I have with the help of another member > on this list gotten it so that I can build the plug-ins including > QuickTime(prop 3-p lib) which you have to have the sdk installed on your > system. Now that that is working I found that there is an issue with the > QuickTime SDK when building with VS2013. I'm getting two fatal errors and > thus the lib dose not build. I still have the VS2010 build system running > just fine and I'm trying to figure out how to get it so that the QuickTime > lib will build with both at least until the new build system is fully > adopted. > > > > Here is the two errors from the VS2013 media_plugini_QuickTim.log file > > > > 1>C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime SDK\CIncludes\fp.h(89): error > C2371: 'float_t' : redefinition; different basic types > > C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio > 12.0\VC\include\math.h(67) : see declaration of 'float_t' > > 1>C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime SDK\CIncludes\fp.h(122): warning > C4005: 'NAN' : macro redefinition > > C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio > 12.0\VC\include\math.h(106) : see previous definition of 'NAN' > > 1>Done Building Project > "D:\HG\viewer-tools-update\build-vc120\media_plugins\quicktime\media_plugin_quicktime.vcxproj" > (Build target(s)) -- FAILED. > > > > Now these errors do not happen when I'm building from the release branch > using VS2010. > > > > I will at a later date post out my patch for adding a switch for OS > developers to use to add QuickTime to their builds once I figure out how to > get around these errors. > > I just need to figure out how to block this in VS2013 and not in VS2010 > then all should be good. > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4299/9173 - Release Date: 02/24/15 > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150224/602a48e7/attachment.htm From sldev at free.fr Tue Feb 24 14:10:20 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 23:10:20 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> Message-ID: <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600, Nicky Perian wrote: > Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered > as content in an archive. Which means TPV developers will not be able any more to fix bugs in the plugins and will have to endure the very same bugs as the ones plagging LL's viewer... Sory, but this is a *bad* solution. > For quicktime this is more licence friendly by delivering the dll > instead on the components needed to build the dll in the viewer. The SDK can still be downloaded from Apple's site (or was the last time I checked), so where is the problem exactly ?... > That is likely not the complete reason for packaging but, it is > cleaner. Not at all... The proper and only "clean" solution would be to get fully rid of the Quicktime dependency for the builds... Quicktime is totally outdated anyway. Henri. From jaeger_reg at hotmail.com Tue Feb 24 14:29:34 2015 From: jaeger_reg at hotmail.com (Tank Master) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:29:34 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net>, , <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: The problem is the SDK is so old, it is not compatible with VS2013 do to the updated VC11 code support. That why it is erroring now.~TM > Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 23:10:20 +0100 > From: sldev at free.fr > To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600, Nicky Perian wrote: > > > Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered > > as content in an archive. > > Which means TPV developers will not be able any more to fix bugs in the > plugins and will have to endure the very same bugs as the ones plagging > LL's viewer... > > Sory, but this is a *bad* solution. > > > For quicktime this is more licence friendly by delivering the dll > > instead on the components needed to build the dll in the viewer. > > The SDK can still be downloaded from Apple's site (or was the last > time I checked), so where is the problem exactly ?... > > > That is likely not the complete reason for packaging but, it is > > cleaner. > > Not at all... The proper and only "clean" solution would be to get > fully rid of the Quicktime dependency for the builds... Quicktime > is totally outdated anyway. > > Henri. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150224/5b6c5290/attachment.htm From darien.caldwell at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 19:03:29 2015 From: darien.caldwell at gmail.com (Darien Caldwell) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:03:29 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind LL moving all the multimedia to a plugin system was so that 3rd parties could write their own plugins. There's nothing stopping anyone from writing a plugin to take over all the functions the old Quicktime plugin does. It's just that nobody has bothered to do it. Quicktime is old, the current version is still compiled for Windows XP, and Apple seems to have abandoned it. With HTML5, it's pretty much unnecessary in this day and age. Someone should just write a new Parcel media plugin and put quicktime to bed for good. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150224/8920ba2f/attachment.htm From sldev at free.fr Wed Feb 25 05:49:39 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:49:39 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <20150225144939.9cf7c9c8.sldev@free.fr> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:03:29 -0800, Darien Caldwell wrote: > I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind LL moving all the multimedia to a > plugin system was so that 3rd parties could write their own plugins. I doubt it... > There's nothing stopping anyone from writing a plugin to take over all > the functions the old Quicktime plugin does. It's just that nobody has > bothered to do it. Don't count on me: I never use the multimedia features myself (if I want to watch a video stream, listen to music or browse a website, I do it with the proper, dedicated programs out of the viewer itself... I keep doing things the UNIX way, i.e. using the right, specialized program/tool for each special purpose). However, since LL has concentrated in the past months on improving and attempting to fix things that don't work properly, I'm simply pointing out one such thing that would need a serious rework: the whole multimedia thing is completely outdated in the viewer... > Quicktime is old, the current version is still compiled for Windows XP, > and Apple seems to have abandoned it. Exactly, thus why it's (more than) about time to drop it completely ! > With HTML5, it's pretty much unnecessary in this day and age. Someone > should just write a new Parcel media plugin and put quicktime to bed > for good. HTML5 is just a different way to embbed multimedia contents in a web page. It still relies on OS-dependent "renderers" that are now however taken care of by the web browsers (using existing multimedia libraries for each OS) themselves rather than via third parties plugins. So, HTML5 support won't save LL from implementing proper multimedia support in the viewer itself (and would require using a built-in browser plugin that also supports HTML5, which is not the case of the current QT Webkit plugin), and parcel media is *not* the *real* problem here... Henri. From cinder at alchemyviewer.org Wed Feb 25 06:28:15 2015 From: cinder at alchemyviewer.org (Cinder Roxley) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 07:28:15 -0700 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <20150225144939.9cf7c9c8.sldev@free.fr> References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> <20150225144939.9cf7c9c8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: On February 25, 2015 at 6:49:56 AM, Henri Beauchamp (sldev at free.fr) wrote: On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:03:29 -0800, Darien Caldwell wrote:? > I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind LL moving all the multimedia to a? > plugin system was so that 3rd parties could write their own plugins.? I doubt it...? Yeah, that was kind of the whole point of the change. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Media_Rendering_Plugin_System Though it doesn?t appear that work in this was ever completed. (You still have the build the entire viewer to build and test a media rendering plugin. You need to stay relatively in sync upstream so releasing these plugins can?t really be independent from viewer-release and can?t realistically be released and work across the board with tpv?s based on Snowstorm.) Outside of that, there are many other factors as to why nobody has developed a media plugin. For one, licensing costs money, and us lowly, non-commercial developers cannot afford or do not wish to shell out money to pay for codec licenses like mp3. --? Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150225/78e780f8/attachment.htm From darien.caldwell at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 18:37:58 2015 From: darien.caldwell at gmail.com (Darien Caldwell) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:37:58 -0800 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> <20150225144939.9cf7c9c8.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: Yeah but don't really have to use codecs. HTML5 Elements for audio do not use codecs, not in most of the larger browsers anyway (Chrome, IE). The mp3 stream is played natively by the browser. ( it's true Firefox does not include native MP3 support) It would require for LL to finish their project to upgrade the viewer to a HTML5 compatible browser before that could be done though. example: http://www.html5tutorial.info/html5-audio.php more information: http://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_audio.asp As LL is talking about adding CEF v3 (Chromium embedded framework), all HTML5 Audio/Video support will come from the ffmpegsumo.dll which is part of the framework. (see: http://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/wiki/GeneralUsage Application Layout->Windows) " On Windows the default layout places the libcef library and related resources next to the application executable. The directory structure looks like this: Application/ cefclient.exe <= cefclient application executable libcef.dll <= main CEF library icudt.dll <= ICU unicode support library ffmpegsumo.dll <= HTML5 audio/video support library <---------- libEGL.dll, libGLESv2.dll, ? <= accelerated compositing support libraries cef.pak, devtools_resources.pak <= non-localized resources and strings locales/ en-US.pak, ? <= locale-specific resources and strings " So once CEF is in place, this included library could be utilized for MP3 and video playback. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Cinder Roxley wrote: > On February 25, 2015 at 6:49:56 AM, Henri Beauchamp (sldev at free.fr) wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:03:29 -0800, Darien Caldwell wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind LL moving all the multimedia to a > > plugin system was so that 3rd parties could write their own plugins. > > I doubt it... > > Yeah, that was kind of the whole point of the change. > > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Media_Rendering_Plugin_System > > Though it doesn?t appear that work in this was ever completed. (You still > have the build the entire viewer to build and test a media rendering > plugin. You need to stay relatively in sync upstream so releasing these > plugins can?t really be independent from viewer-release and can?t > realistically be released and work across the board with tpv?s based on > Snowstorm.) > > Outside of that, there are many other factors as to why nobody has > developed a media plugin. For one, licensing costs money, and us lowly, > non-commercial developers cannot afford or do not wish to shell out money > to pay for codec licenses like mp3. > > -- > Cinder Roxley > Sent with Airmail > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150225/9c0a9e42/attachment.htm From oz at lindenlab.com Fri Feb 27 06:23:19 2015 From: oz at lindenlab.com (Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:23:19 -0500 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: <54F07DD7.20207@lindenlab.com> On 2015-02-24 17:10 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600, Nicky Perian wrote: > >> Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered >> as content in an archive. > Which means TPV developers will not be able any more to fix bugs in the > plugins and will have to endure the very same bugs as the ones plagging > LL's viewer... Not at all - the repository that builds the plugins is public. https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/3p-update-slplugins that will move to 3p-slplugins when we release the tools update viewer (which should be going to release candidate very shortly). > Not at all... The proper and only "clean" solution would be to get > fully rid of the Quicktime dependency for the builds... Quicktime > is totally outdated anyway. I see no reason to remove support for any Quicktime content people may have in SL if we can avoid it. We are very actively working on updating the web media subsystem; whether or not it will maintain exactly the current plugin strategy, and whether or not it will be possible to keep Quicktime working are still to be determined. Stay tuned. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts oz at lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces Check out what we're working on! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150227/ccb27ceb/attachment.htm From sldev at free.fr Fri Feb 27 08:20:59 2015 From: sldev at free.fr (Henri Beauchamp) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 17:20:59 +0100 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <54F07DD7.20207@lindenlab.com> References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> <54F07DD7.20207@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <20150227172059.7a51876e.sldev@free.fr> On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:23:19 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > On 2015-02-24 17:10 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600, Nicky Perian wrote: > > > >> Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered > >> as content in an archive. > > Which means TPV developers will not be able any more to fix bugs in the > > plugins and will have to endure the very same bugs as the ones plagging > > LL's viewer... > > Not at all - the repository that builds the plugins is public. > > https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/3p-update-slplugins And I confirm my assertion.. See by yourself: that link points to a repository which holds only *binaries* (no source at all !): how would TPV developers fix bugs and provide/use fixed binaries without the sources ??? > that will move to 3p-slplugins when we release the tools update viewer > (which should be going to release candidate very shortly). > > > Not at all... The proper and only "clean" solution would be to get > > fully rid of the Quicktime dependency for the builds... Quicktime > > is totally outdated anyway. > > I see no reason to remove support for any Quicktime content people may > have in SL if we can avoid it. You may perfectly read Quicktime encoded files using other libraries (including open source ones) than that old Quicktime SDK... All what I said is that it is time to drop that old Quicktime for Windows SDK and use another (preferably an open source one) instead. > We are very actively working on updating the web media subsystem; > whether or not it will maintain exactly the current plugin strategy, and > whether or not it will be possible to keep Quicktime working are still > to be determined. Stay tuned. Glad to know there's work being done... I'd wish it would be done in the open however... Any chance to get a public repository open for the current work in progress ? Henri. From nickyperian at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 17:24:13 2015 From: nickyperian at gmail.com (Nicky Perian) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 19:24:13 -0600 Subject: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help In-Reply-To: <20150227172059.7a51876e.sldev@free.fr> References: <003301d05077$fefa9630$fcefc290$@net> <20150224231020.9eaa9807.sldev@free.fr> <54F07DD7.20207@lindenlab.com> <20150227172059.7a51876e.sldev@free.fr> Message-ID: > On 2015-02-24 17:10 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600, Nicky Perian wrote: > > > >> Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered > >> as content in an archive. > > Which means TPV developers will not be able any more to fix bugs in the > > plugins and will have to endure the very same bugs as the ones plagging > > LL's viewer... > > Not at all - the repository that builds the plugins is public. > > https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/3p-update-slplugins >>> And I confirm my assertion.. See by yourself: that link points to a >>> repository which holds only *binaries* (no source at all !): how >>> would TPV developers fix bugs and provide/use fixed binaries >>> without the sources ??? @Oz Will we have to keep the old tools active to rebuild the plugin binaries and then piece together archives to use in the new tools? If so, that is unsatisfactory. 3p-update-slplugins needs to standalone and be able to produce an archive without having to rely on the outdated tools. On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:23:19 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > > > On 2015-02-24 17:10 , Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:37:21 -0600, Nicky Perian wrote: > > > > > >> Plugins are no longer built in the viewer but, are delivered > > >> as content in an archive. > > > Which means TPV developers will not be able any more to fix bugs in the > > > plugins and will have to endure the very same bugs as the ones plagging > > > LL's viewer... > > > > Not at all - the repository that builds the plugins is public. > > > > https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/3p-update-slplugins > > And I confirm my assertion.. See by yourself: that link points to a > repository which holds only *binaries* (no source at all !): how > would TPV developers fix bugs and provide/use fixed binaries without > the sources ??? > > > that will move to 3p-slplugins when we release the tools update viewer > > (which should be going to release candidate very shortly). > > > > > Not at all... The proper and only "clean" solution would be to get > > > fully rid of the Quicktime dependency for the builds... Quicktime > > > is totally outdated anyway. > > > > I see no reason to remove support for any Quicktime content people may > > have in SL if we can avoid it. > > You may perfectly read Quicktime encoded files using other libraries > (including open source ones) than that old Quicktime SDK... > All what I said is that it is time to drop that old Quicktime for > Windows SDK and use another (preferably an open source one) instead. > > > We are very actively working on updating the web media subsystem; > > whether or not it will maintain exactly the current plugin strategy, and > > whether or not it will be possible to keep Quicktime working are still > > to be determined. Stay tuned. > > Glad to know there's work being done... I'd wish it would be done in the > open however... Any chance to get a public repository open for the > current work in progress ? > > Henri. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20150227/892bdc90/attachment.htm