[sldev] The criminalization of open source

Kamilion kamilion at gmail.com
Tue Dec 18 21:25:06 PST 2007


Replies in line.

On Dec 18, 2007 4:49 AM, Dale Glass <dale at daleglass.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 at 12:54:53PM +0100, Nicholaz Beresford wrote:
> >
> > Actually, just for the record,  I will not bother to undo that if
> > the Lindens make that change.  My focus has always been performance,
> > stability and usability and I don't see where this change makes a
> > difference in any those areas.
> Heh, I was actually considering keeping it in mine.
>
> We have different niches here, if your is performance and stability,
> mine is advanced functionality.
>
> Since we're at it, does anybody NEED it back? For practical usage for
> some purpose, and not as a political statement I mean.
>
> > It's merely a placeholder for something much bigger, and my life
> > is just too short to enter the arena of political or religious
> > issues in SL.
> I'm not that interested in politics myself either. My philosophy is that
> if it's useful, it'd rather keep it.

Actually, I was using the View Admin Options -> Ctrl-Shift-Alt-T method today.
My good friend and flatmate is a builder.
I'm a scripter.
That means my scripts operate on his builds nearly exclusively, since
I suck at building.

In the course of my scripting, I often need to check what face is
displaying which texture.
(and it's just icing on the cake that I get the texture size at the same time)

In the course of my work, I ran across some objects said builder
friend created, that I could not
copy the textures with my primdumper script using llGetTexture or
llGetPrimitiveParams([PRIM_TEXTURE, ALL_SIDES]).

I ended up resorting to using the libsecondlife TestClient's export
function to dump the prims out to an XML format so I could read them.
Easy as pie, just read the libsl page, click Getting Started.

In asking in the Scripter groups (Scripters of Second Life / Advanced
Scripters of Second Life) I ran across the Admin/Shift-Ctrl-Alt-T.
In doing so, I was able to compare the texture UUIDs while I could see
them with the UUIDs I had on file.
It's probably saving me about 3 days of time, considering I've got
about 1600 prims to go through and each of them has at least 6
textures.

I'll probably end up patching in jhurliman's piemenu Copy UUID to
Clipboard to my local linux build.

On Dec 18, 2007 1:41 AM, Erik Anderson <odysseus654 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have also heard that CopyBot is still floating around on the grid in
> various places, albiet a lot more underground than before.  And you know
> what?  I'm not sure I care.  I'm glad that for the most part that the very
> widely-distributed "information should be free" copybots were killed as the
> required viewer version got bumped, which raised the bar and limited the
> population to those with the ability to maintain the code through the viewer
> changes (and their friends).   Sometime eventually I would like to see
> aspects of copybots come back (it would be nice for clothing stores to
> simultaneously model 12 changes of clothing on your avatar for instance)

Copybot's been dead and been dead for a long while. It only worked for
about 3 weeks somewhere in the 1.16/1.17 series.
LL shortly released an update, which at that time released a new UDP
protocol map EVERY release.

TestClient, which has been shipped with the libsecondlife SVN since
the copybot days, has had the same prim export and import function
that people maligned CopyBot for.
However, many commits hit the SVN which have broken the exporter or
importer at various times while the inventory code was being reworked.
I am unsure if it's currently working, but there are specific revision
numbers which have worked since 1.18 and still continue to do so.

Your comment that it's 'gone underground' is completely false, as many
many more people have used TestClient than had ever used CopyBot.

The @#$%ing annoying copybot killers that attempt to IM anyone with
!quit are COMPLETELY flawed, because even the 'good' copybot direct
from libsl DID NOT RESPOND TO *OBJECTS* IMing !quit, only AGENTS. The
'bad' hacked copybot had completely removed the !quit command thus
were completely immune.

Copybot Killers are a waste of time and effort, and DO NOT WORK. End of story.


Now, about this TOS arguement.

If my memory isn't mistaken, doesn't the TOS grant LL a license to use
and display any and all uploaded textures to ANYONE at any time?

Under the following in the TOS:
----------
3.2 You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with
respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you
have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain
representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights,
forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of
Second Life.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, you understand and agree that by
submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically
grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant)
to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up,
perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use,
reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted
by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and
reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of
your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional
purposes in connection with the Service, provided that in the event
that your Content appears publicly in material under the control of
Linden Lab, and you provide written notice to Linden Lab of your
desire to discontinue the distribution of such Content in such
material (with sufficient specificity to allow Linden Lab, in its sole
discretion, to identify the relevant Content and materials), Linden
Lab will make commercially reasonable efforts to cease its
distribution of such Content following the receipt of such notice,
although Linden Lab cannot provide any assurances regarding materials
produced or distributed prior to the receipt of such notice; (b) the
perpetual and irrevocable right to delete any or all of your Content
from Linden Lab's servers and from the Service, whether intentionally
or unintentionally, and for any reason or no reason, without any
liability of any kind to you or any other party; and (c) a royalty-
free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and
license to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may
deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing and/or
providing support services in connection with the Service.

3.4 Linden Lab licenses its textures and environmental content to you
for your use in creating content in-world.

During any period in which your Account is active and in good
standing, Linden Lab gives you permission to create still and/or
moving media, for use only within the virtual world environment of the
Service ("in-world"), which use or include the "textures" and/or
"environmental content" that are both (a) created or owned by Linden
Lab and (b) displayed by Linden Lab in-world.

----------

If I'm not mistaken, with such a reciprocal license, does that not
imply that we too may display and / or use any texture uploaded to the
service?
Considering that *we* as users are not actually transferring or
displaying the textures, the LL servers are transferring the textures
to us thus invoking their "royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up,
perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license" (I.E.
Full-Perms) to "use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the
Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service"
(I.E. upload) clause?


And my last comment on this...
Earlier today, a discussion went on in Advanced Scripters of Second
Life, where a nameless entity said:
[2007/12/18 9:43]  Kamilion Schnook: AWG is working on redefining the
SL protocol for future & open use.
[2007/12/18 9:43]  Nameless Belligerent: Linden Labs is a private company
[2007/12/18 9:44]  Nameless Belligerent : Sounds like more copybot to me
[2007/12/18 9:45]  Kamilion Schnook: Oh noes, teh copybot is going to
swipe MAH TEXTURES HALP HALP MAH HOURS OF PIRATED PHOTOSHOP WORK FROM
GOOGLE IMAGE BASES... </sarcasm>
[2007/12/18 9:45]  Nameless Belligerent: stealing textures is easy
[2007/12/18 9:46]  Nameless Belligerent: thats all we need, more open
sourced protocol for people to hack and make illicit tools like
copybot. Go for it!
[2007/12/18 9:46]  Enlightened Individual: You don't need copybot to
do that, it's way, way easier. :P
[2007/12/18 9:48]  Kamilion Schnook: Gee, y'know, I've been here since
we've had 30k residents... and the most #1 requested feature I've
heard in those years is "Let me download my items to my harddrive so
LL doesn't lose them / I don't lose them". LibSL comes through, and
they're the bad guy, just because of a couple off-color coments in IRC
from Baba. Sheesh. Anyway, I'm shutting up now. :/
[2007/12/18 9:48]  Mini Moderator: heh
[2007/12/18 9:48]  Enlightened Individual: yeah, libSL is pretty much
an unmitigated Good Thing for us. Don't rag on them.
[2007/12/18 9:49]  Enlightened Individual: people have got over the
whole copying issue on the web years ago because it was built into the
protocol from the start
[2007/12/18 9:49]  Enlightened Individual: and view source was hugely
important for the spread of the web
[2007/12/18 9:49]  Nameless Belligerent: yeah right, libsl will ruin
Sl. right of ownership is one of the thing SL residents depend on to
survive.
[2007/12/18 9:49]  Nameless Belligerent: people make real money from this game
[2007/12/18 9:49]  Enlightened Individual: oh, right, and the web is
worth nothing, huh?
[2007/12/18 9:50]  Enlightened Individual: I can copy and rehost IBM's
website no problem
[2007/12/18 9:50]  Nameless Belligerent: it paid for my college
tuition, if someone wants to take that from me for the simple right of
open sourced well screw open sourced.
[2007/12/18 9:53]  Mini Moderator: STOP THE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION, sheash. ;)
[2007/12/18 9:53]  Nameless Belligerent: at least the way it has been
[2007/12/18 9:54]  Kamilion Schnook: Hm, let's see... Screw
opensource... SL runs on linux servers using mysql databases, squid
proxies, python glue, postfix mailer... Now I'm really going to STFU,
sorry *Mini Moderator*.
[2007/12/18 9:54]  ToungeIn Cheek: ..but how can you have income if
the hack was unproductive? :P
[2007/12/18 9:54]  Nameless Belligerent: If copybot comes back and
people make perfect duplicates than how can many of us survive, I am a
scripter but many of us are builders.
[2007/12/18 9:54]  Mini Moderator: No problem Kamilion. Great closing
statement on that,
[2007/12/18 9:54]  Enlightened Individual is done too. *Nameless
Belligerent* is clueless.

Draw your own conclusions.

-- Kami


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