From brickrte at hughes.net Tue Jan 5 06:12:14 2010 From: brickrte at hughes.net (Laurence Brickner) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:12:14 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress Message-ID: Hi all, I've restarted this 1.24 build project several times. And found things I was doing wrong. For example, I was working from folders on the desk top. Obviously, that path has spaces in it. Anyway, at this point I get the following error when launching Secondlife-bin.exe from C:\SnowGlobe\linden\indra\build-vc80\newview\relwithdebinfo. It's the same from within VS ide or with a short cut or directly in Windows explorer. "ERROR: LLControlGroup::getColor: Invalid getColor control ColorDropShadow" Any ideas? Should I abandon the last release and start working from Trunk? Should I join the Foreign Legion? Thanks, Larry /Shor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100105/b054b9e4/attachment.htm From open at autistici.org Tue Jan 5 07:20:46 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:20:46 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:12:14 -0500, "Laurence Brickner" wrote: > Any ideas? Should I abandon the last release and start working from Trunk? > Should I join the Foreign Legion? just a thought, not directly tied to your personal issue: 1. we know in the next few months we will have a new viewer 2. we actually don't know what that viewer will be about 3. yesterday, LL's CEO hinted to a "renewed focus on opensource development", whatever that means. so - in general, I think this may not be the best time to dive deep into viewer development, as too much things *could* heavily change for us in the few upcoming months. this said, feel totally free to ignore this advice, as I know that playing&hacking with code may be delightful and instructive even when it doesn't directly lead anywhere. :) opensource obscure -- HTTP-In at play: http://slurl.com/secondlife/LOL/12/34/56 From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 07:30:18 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:30:18 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Laurence Brickner wrote: > Hi all, > ?ERROR: LLControlGroup::getColor: Invalid getColor control ColorDropShadow? > Any ideas?? Should I abandon the last release and start working from Trunk? > Should I join the Foreign Legion? I'm assuming you are using VS express , if so have you remembered to set the working directory in the snowglobe project. Right click secondlife-bin in solution explorer and select properties, goto configuration properties->debugging, click in the space to the right of "working directory" and press the drop down button, you then have a folder explorer to select from. go back up a few levels then select the newview folder the default location for the working location is the build folder so that is :- indra/build-vc80/newview/ and all your data files are in indra/newview/ so you need that as your working directory Robin From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Tue Jan 5 08:33:36 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:33:36 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> I'm not sure what 1.24 is. Snowglobe is at 1.3 I believe. However, the problem is most likely that your working directory is set to the wrong place. Unless you've changed colors_base.xml, then it's probably your fault. :-) Laurence Brickner wrote: > Hi all, > > I?ve restarted this 1.24 build project several times. And found things > I was doing wrong. For example, I was working from folders on the desk > top. Obviously, that path has spaces in it. > > Anyway, at this point I get the following error when launching > Secondlife-bin.exe from > C:\SnowGlobe\linden\indra\build-vc80\newview\relwithdebinfo. It?s the > same from within VS ide or with a short cut or directly in Windows explorer. > > ?ERROR: LLControlGroup::getColor: Invalid getColor control ColorDropShadow? > > Any ideas? Should I abandon the last release and start working from > Trunk? Should I join the Foreign Legion? From brickrte at odyssey.net Tue Jan 5 08:52:51 2010 From: brickrte at odyssey.net (Laurence Brickner) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:52:51 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> Mike, I downloaded the recommended three Snowglobe zips from here http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Source_downloads. It says it is Ver 1.24 dated 18 Nov 2009. And Robin was correct. Although the exe file was set to the right working directory, ALL_BUILD was not. So I'm trying again. Thanks, Larry -----Original Message----- From: Mike Monkowski [mailto:monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:34 To: brickrte at odyssey.net Cc: 'SLDev Mailing List' Subject: Re: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress I'm not sure what 1.24 is. Snowglobe is at 1.3 I believe. However, the problem is most likely that your working directory is set to the wrong place. Unless you've changed colors_base.xml, then it's probably your fault. :-) Laurence Brickner wrote: > Hi all, > > I've restarted this 1.24 build project several times. And found things > I was doing wrong. For example, I was working from folders on the desk > top. Obviously, that path has spaces in it. > > Anyway, at this point I get the following error when launching > Secondlife-bin.exe from > C:\SnowGlobe\linden\indra\build-vc80\newview\relwithdebinfo. It's the > same from within VS ide or with a short cut or directly in Windows explorer. > > "ERROR: LLControlGroup::getColor: Invalid getColor control ColorDropShadow" > > Any ideas? Should I abandon the last release and start working from > Trunk? Should I join the Foreign Legion? From brickrte at odyssey.net Tue Jan 5 09:10:48 2010 From: brickrte at odyssey.net (Laurence Brickner) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:10:48 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> Message-ID: <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> Follow up. Well I'm back to successful compiles and launching again but still have the original problem of massive LNK4099 warnings (mostly about the APR-1 library) which prevents me from setting breakpoints etc. in the affected sub projects. They default to linking as no debug. Again, I'm using XP pro. VS2005 Enterprise fully installed (All updates on Auto). VS2008 is also installed but not used. After extracting the zips to C:\SnowGlobe I ran develop.py -G VC80 from the console while in indra\newview. Seemed to work fine. (Got lots of CMAKE passing messages). Next I ran develop.py build the same way. All using python 2.6. After all that, I opened VS2005 and opened the solution. Been working in the ide ever since. (about 4 days). Eventually now have fought my way back to that original problem. Thanks, Larry -----Original Message----- From: sldev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [mailto:sldev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Laurence Brickner Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:53 To: 'Mike Monkowski' Cc: 'SLDev Mailing List' Subject: Re: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress Mike, I downloaded the recommended three Snowglobe zips from here http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Source_downloads. It says it is Ver 1.24 dated 18 Nov 2009. And Robin was correct. Although the exe file was set to the right working directory, ALL_BUILD was not. So I'm trying again. Thanks, Larry -----Original Message----- From: Mike Monkowski [mailto:monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:34 To: brickrte at odyssey.net Cc: 'SLDev Mailing List' Subject: Re: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress I'm not sure what 1.24 is. Snowglobe is at 1.3 I believe. However, the problem is most likely that your working directory is set to the wrong place. Unless you've changed colors_base.xml, then it's probably your fault. :-) Laurence Brickner wrote: > Hi all, > > I've restarted this 1.24 build project several times. And found things > I was doing wrong. For example, I was working from folders on the desk > top. Obviously, that path has spaces in it. > > Anyway, at this point I get the following error when launching > Secondlife-bin.exe from > C:\SnowGlobe\linden\indra\build-vc80\newview\relwithdebinfo. It's the > same from within VS ide or with a short cut or directly in Windows explorer. > > "ERROR: LLControlGroup::getColor: Invalid getColor control ColorDropShadow" > > Any ideas? Should I abandon the last release and start working from > Trunk? Should I join the Foreign Legion? _______________________________________________ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Tue Jan 5 11:16:46 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:16:46 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> Message-ID: <4B43901E.3050301@fishkill.ibm.com> The warnings are usual, but they don't prevent me from debugging. Which sub projects are you trying to breakpoint? Mike Laurence Brickner wrote: > Follow up. Well I'm back to successful compiles and launching again but > still have the original problem of massive LNK4099 warnings (mostly about > the APR-1 library) which prevents me from setting breakpoints etc. in the > affected sub projects. They default to linking as no debug. > > Again, I'm using XP pro. VS2005 Enterprise fully installed (All updates on > Auto). VS2008 is also installed but not used. > > After extracting the zips to C:\SnowGlobe I ran develop.py -G VC80 from the > console while in indra\newview. Seemed to work fine. (Got lots of CMAKE > passing messages). Next I ran develop.py build the same way. All using > python 2.6. > > After all that, I opened VS2005 and opened the solution. Been working in > the ide ever since. (about 4 days). Eventually now have fought my way back > to that original problem. From brickrte at hughes.net Tue Jan 5 11:29:11 2010 From: brickrte at hughes.net (Laurence Brickner) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:29:11 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <4B43901E.3050301@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> <4B43901E.3050301@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <2950427F3AE84291AE8B26F186077E34@LRBXPS> Mike, Well, just for example media_plugin_base. Breakpoints in media_plugin_base.cpp get disabled when the app is launched. I think the problem is the decision at link-time to throw away the debug info for the whole sub-project because one library doesn't have it. It really sounds like a compiler switch or command line option, but I haven't found it. Thanks, Larry -----Original Message----- From: Mike Monkowski [mailto:monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 14:17 To: brickrte at odyssey.net Cc: 'SLDev Mailing List' Subject: Re: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress The warnings are usual, but they don't prevent me from debugging. Which sub projects are you trying to breakpoint? Mike Laurence Brickner wrote: > Follow up. Well I'm back to successful compiles and launching again but > still have the original problem of massive LNK4099 warnings (mostly about > the APR-1 library) which prevents me from setting breakpoints etc. in the > affected sub projects. They default to linking as no debug. > > Again, I'm using XP pro. VS2005 Enterprise fully installed (All updates on > Auto). VS2008 is also installed but not used. > > After extracting the zips to C:\SnowGlobe I ran develop.py -G VC80 from the > console while in indra\newview. Seemed to work fine. (Got lots of CMAKE > passing messages). Next I ran develop.py build the same way. All using > python 2.6. > > After all that, I opened VS2005 and opened the solution. Been working in > the ide ever since. (about 4 days). Eventually now have fought my way back > to that original problem. From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Tue Jan 5 11:42:44 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:42:44 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <2950427F3AE84291AE8B26F186077E34@LRBXPS> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> <4B43901E.3050301@fishkill.ibm.com> <2950427F3AE84291AE8B26F186077E34@LRBXPS> Message-ID: <4B439634.1030309@fishkill.ibm.com> I may be wrong, because I haven't looked at the plugin code, but I believe that the plugins are dynamically loaded, so that when the app is launched, they're not there yet. Can you breakpoint in the main executable? Mike Laurence Brickner wrote: > Mike, > Well, just for example media_plugin_base. Breakpoints in > media_plugin_base.cpp get disabled when the app is launched. I think the > problem is the decision at link-time to throw away the debug info for the > whole sub-project because one library doesn't have it. It really sounds > like a compiler switch or command line option, but I haven't found it. From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 11:39:19 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:39:19 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <2950427F3AE84291AE8B26F186077E34@LRBXPS> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> <4B43901E.3050301@fishkill.ibm.com> <2950427F3AE84291AE8B26F186077E34@LRBXPS> Message-ID: <4B439567.8090205@gmail.com> Laurence Brickner wrote: > Mike, > Well, just for example media_plugin_base. Breakpoints in > media_plugin_base.cpp get disabled when the app is launched. I think the > problem is the decision at link-time to throw away the debug info for the > whole sub-project because one library doesn't have it. It really sounds > like a compiler switch or command line option, but I haven't found it. > media_plugins are spawned as a *separate process* to the viewer you cannot set a break point in a media plugin or the base media plugin files and expect to hit it from snowglobe, you will need to start snowglobe then attach the debugger to the plugin process once it has started, then you can do usual debugging. but you also need to disable the watch dog in snowglobe or your breaking the plugin will make it think the plugin has died and snowglobe will ignore it. Robin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100105/052a6113/attachment.pgp From brickrte at hughes.net Tue Jan 5 16:47:25 2010 From: brickrte at hughes.net (Laurence Brickner) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:47:25 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress In-Reply-To: <4B439567.8090205@gmail.com> References: <4B4369E0.9040402@fishkill.ibm.com> <161499F078F445ACA7F78795F3EF6C68@LRBXPS> <5A4081A8D29447F49772E5B91A3CA910@LRBXPS> <4B43901E.3050301@fishkill.ibm.com> <2950427F3AE84291AE8B26F186077E34@LRBXPS> <4B439567.8090205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <81988813211041578456882D2B619556@LRBXPS> Robin, That makes a lot of sense and fits with the ghost I've been chasing. Thanks to both you and Mike for "Hanging in there". Larry/Shor -----Original Message----- From: Robin Cornelius [mailto:robin.cornelius at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 14:39 To: brickrte at odyssey.net Cc: 'Mike Monkowski'; 'SLDev Mailing List' Subject: Re: [sldev] Maybe I'm making progress Laurence Brickner wrote: > Mike, > Well, just for example media_plugin_base. Breakpoints in > media_plugin_base.cpp get disabled when the app is launched. I think the > problem is the decision at link-time to throw away the debug info for the > whole sub-project because one library doesn't have it. It really sounds > like a compiler switch or command line option, but I haven't found it. > media_plugins are spawned as a *separate process* to the viewer you cannot set a break point in a media plugin or the base media plugin files and expect to hit it from snowglobe, you will need to start snowglobe then attach the debugger to the plugin process once it has started, then you can do usual debugging. but you also need to disable the watch dog in snowglobe or your breaking the plugin will make it think the plugin has died and snowglobe will ignore it. Robin From poppy at lindenlab.com Tue Jan 5 18:12:57 2010 From: poppy at lindenlab.com (Paul Oppenheim (Poppy Linden)) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:12:57 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Message Burst Metrics Message-ID: <4B43F1A9.6030603@lindenlab.com> I created docs for code that will be popping up in trunk soon. Hopefully it makes sense, please let me know if you find anything the matter with it. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LLMessageSystem_Burst_Metrics + poppy From lady_radsu at yahoo.com Wed Jan 6 21:59:39 2010 From: lady_radsu at yahoo.com (surangika ranathunga) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:59:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions Message-ID: <166044.40189.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am browsing through the Second Life viewer code to figure out how the client does velocity interpolation to find out the position information of the avatars in the camera vicinity. From what I have learnt, update packets are sent by the server only when there's a change in the avatar's velocity, acceleration, etc. Viewer uses velocity interpolation to find out the missing values in-between the update packets, and moves the avatars and objects accordingly. So if anybody has any information on what the client does here and how it does it, please pass it. It would be very much appreciated. Even if you know of any other place where this information is contained/discussed, please pass along. /Surangika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100106/c3bc8be6/attachment.htm From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Thu Jan 7 13:46:20 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:46:20 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <166044.40189.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <166044.40189.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> The topic was described in this SL-UX thread recently https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sl-ux/2009-November/000339.html Mike surangika ranathunga wrote: > I am browsing through the Second Life viewer code to figure out how the > client does velocity interpolation to find out the position information > of the avatars in the camera vicinity. From what I have learnt, update > packets are sent by the server only when there's a change in the > avatar's velocity, acceleration, etc. Viewer uses velocity interpolation > to find out the missing values in-between the update packets, and moves > the avatars and objects accordingly. > > So if anybody has any information on what the client does here and how > it does it, please pass it. It would be very much appreciated. Even if > you know of any other place where this information is > contained/discussed, please pass along. From melinda at superliminal.com Thu Jan 7 14:58:25 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:58:25 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <166044.40189.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <4B466711.8050705@superliminal.com> If all you need is rough position data for nearby avatars, look at the data shared by the mini-map, "near me" tabs, and the active speakers floater. -Melinda Mike Monkowski wrote: > The topic was described in this SL-UX thread recently > https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sl-ux/2009-November/000339.html > > Mike > > surangika ranathunga wrote: > >> I am browsing through the Second Life viewer code to figure out how the >> client does velocity interpolation to find out the position information >> of the avatars in the camera vicinity. From what I have learnt, update >> packets are sent by the server only when there's a change in the >> avatar's velocity, acceleration, etc. Viewer uses velocity interpolation >> to find out the missing values in-between the update packets, and moves >> the avatars and objects accordingly. >> >> So if anybody has any information on what the client does here and how >> it does it, please pass it. It would be very much appreciated. Even if >> you know of any other place where this information is >> contained/discussed, please pass along. From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 17:22:37 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 02:22:37 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 Message-ID: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> I've got: CMake Error in newview/CMakeLists.txt: Cannot find source file "llsavedlogins.cpp". Tried extensions .c .C .c++ .cc .cpp .cxx .m .M .mm .h .hh .h+ + .hm .hpp .hxx .in .txx somebody else? (i've broke something in my local repo?) From lady_radsu at yahoo.com Thu Jan 7 20:24:28 2010 From: lady_radsu at yahoo.com (surangika ranathunga) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:24:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <139901.60070.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for the reply Mike. In one place of that discussion, it says "the viewer does not do any prediction except velocity estimation once the avatar is moving." So I think this proves what I have mentioned earlier: when the client does not get update packets for a particular avatar,? it just calculates the position based on the last recorded velocity. I recorded the update packets that are being sent by the server to the client, and to extract points in-between two data packets, I used velocity interpolation, based on the velocity that was recorded in the previous update packet. But when the client does receive the next update packet, the position value there seems to be bit behind the calculated position values. i.e. the interpolated position values are bit ahead of the actual position received later. So, just like in the case where the avatar is walking through walls some times, is it possible that the client snaps the avatar back to its correct position, when the update packet is received? (well, I did have sometimes noticed the avatars (even my avatar) going back slightly and again start moving forward). /Surangika --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Mike Monkowski wrote: From: Mike Monkowski Subject: Re: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions To: "surangika ranathunga" Cc: SLDev at lists.secondlife.com Received: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:46 PM The topic was described in this SL-UX thread recently https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sl-ux/2009-November/000339.html Mike surangika ranathunga wrote: > I am browsing through the Second Life viewer code to figure out how the client does velocity interpolation to find out the position information of the avatars in the camera vicinity. From what I have learnt, update packets are sent by the server only when there's a change in the avatar's velocity, acceleration, etc. Viewer uses velocity interpolation to find out the missing values in-between the update packets, and moves the avatars and objects accordingly. > > So if anybody has any information on what the client does here and how it does it, please pass it. It would be very much appreciated. Even if you know of any other place where this information is contained/discussed, please pass along. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100107/5b6ba6df/attachment.htm From merov at lindenlab.com Thu Jan 7 22:12:40 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 22:12:40 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> Ouch! Looks like Aleric forgot to add those files to svn: they never made it to r3080... I committed them: r3082 Thanks for the hawkeye Tayra :) Cheers, - Merov On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Tayra Dagostino wrote: > I've got: > > CMake Error in newview/CMakeLists.txt: > Cannot find source file "llsavedlogins.cpp". Tried > extensions .c .C .c++ .cc .cpp .cxx .m .M .mm .h .hh .h+ > + .hm .hpp .hxx .in .txx > > > somebody else? (i've broke something in my local repo?) > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100107/0e7b99c7/attachment.htm From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Fri Jan 8 03:38:31 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:38:31 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> in r3082: Scanning dependencies of target llrender [ 28%] Building CXX object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llcubemap.cpp.o [ 28%] Building CXX object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llfont.cpp.o /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/llrender/llfont.cpp:42:44: error: llfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h: No such file or directory Am Freitag, 8. Januar 2010 07:12:40 schrieb Philippe (Merov) Bossut: > Ouch! Looks like Aleric forgot to add those files to svn: they never made > it to r3080... > I committed them: r3082 > > Thanks for the hawkeye Tayra :) > > Cheers, > - Merov > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Tayra Dagostino > > wrote: > > I've got: > > > > CMake Error in newview/CMakeLists.txt: > > Cannot find source file "llsavedlogins.cpp". Tried > > extensions .c .C .c++ .cc .cpp .cxx .m .M .mm .h .hh .h+ > > + .hm .hpp .hxx .in .txx > > > > > > somebody else? (i've broke something in my local repo?) > > _______________________________________________ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > > privileges > From aleric.inglewood at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 05:37:43 2010 From: aleric.inglewood at gmail.com (Aleric Inglewood) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:37:43 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <139901.60070.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> <139901.60070.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e01733d1001080537m2f012a6bh7c8c0ef1fd290e39@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 5:24 AM, surangika ranathunga wrote: > (well, I did have sometimes noticed the avatars (even my avatar) going back > slightly and again start moving forward). > > Called "rubber banding", very annoying. If you could improve that then I'd be very interested in reviewing your patch and committing it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/8e1c6640/attachment.htm From nexiim at googlemail.com Fri Jan 8 05:54:08 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:54:08 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <1e01733d1001080537m2f012a6bh7c8c0ef1fd290e39@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> <139901.60070.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e01733d1001080537m2f012a6bh7c8c0ef1fd290e39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001080554q4ef8c7f7g6a17446d41e68fba@mail.gmail.com> I was thinking of different ways to approach it and improve the prediction code. One thing that doesn't seem to be taken into account is rotation velocity in relation to the linear velocity/position prediction. (Imagine moving around in a circle, and rubberbanding in a tangent out of the circle constantly as you lag) Also a maximum distance for the prediction to run on so it doesn't keep predicting forever. Tracking the linear and angular velocity in cubic interpolation seems handy and much more seamless from testing. (I use it often in LSL scripts for vehicles when two vehicles need to keep track of each other accurately when 'attached', it works really well and could be applied to the client for avatar prediction too in a similiar sense) Just some ideas I was fleshing out over time since I am in the combat community and lag can be destructive to the high-speed experience. - Nexii On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Aleric Inglewood wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 5:24 AM, surangika ranathunga > wrote: > >> (well, I did have sometimes noticed the avatars (even my avatar) going >> back slightly and again start moving forward). >> >> > Called "rubber banding", very annoying. If you could improve that > then I'd be very interested in reviewing your patch and committing it. > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/ef209ada/attachment-0001.htm From aleric.inglewood at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 06:19:11 2010 From: aleric.inglewood at gmail.com (Aleric Inglewood) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 15:19:11 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <1e01733d1001080619x28031200v2e905e25897d4ad3@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote: > in r3082: > > Scanning dependencies of target llrender > [ 28%] Building CXX object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llcubemap.cpp.o > [ 28%] Building CXX object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llfont.cpp.o > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/llrender/llfont.cpp:42:44: error: > llfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h: No such file or directory That is part of libfreetype6-dev From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 06:30:44 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:30:44 +0000 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <4B474194.8050802@gmail.com> Lance Corrimal wrote: > in r3082: > > Scanning dependencies of target llrender > [ 28%] Building CXX object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llcubemap.cpp.o > [ 28%] Building CXX object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llfont.cpp.o > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/llrender/llfont.cpp:42:44: error: > llfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h: No such file or directory > Confirmed one of the recent commits is triggering this condition on non standalone builds, i'll take a peek Robin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/9c6b262b/attachment.pgp From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Fri Jan 8 06:42:36 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 15:42:36 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <1e01733d1001080619x28031200v2e905e25897d4ad3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <1e01733d1001080619x28031200v2e905e25897d4ad3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001081542.36579.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Am Freitag, 8. Januar 2010 15:19:11 schrieb Aleric Inglewood: > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Lance Corrimal > > wrote: > > in r3082: > > > > Scanning dependencies of target llrender > > [ 28%] Building CXX object > > llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llcubemap.cpp.o [ 28%] Building CXX > > object llrender/CMakeFiles/llrender.dir/llfont.cpp.o > > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/llrender/llfont.cpp:42:44: error: > > llfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h: No such file or directory > > That is part of libfreetype6-dev > so i'm supposed to build standalone now? from the file in question: // Freetype stuff #if !defined(LL_LINUX) || defined(LL_STANDALONE) # include #else // I had to do some work to avoid the system-installed FreeType headers... -- ryan. # include "llfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h" #endif my cmake call: Running 'cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=RELEASE -G \'Unix Makefiles\' - DSERVER:BOOL=OFF -DVIEWER:BOOL=ON -DSTANDALONE:BOOL=OFF -DUNATTENDED:BOOL=ON - DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife "-DPACKAGE:BOOL=ON" "-DGCC_DISABLE_FATAL_WARNINGS:BOOL=ON" \'/usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra\'' in 'viewer-linux-i686-release' and it used to build just fine with the previous svn checkout, around r3071... going to poull a diff and see what has changed. From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 06:44:40 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:44:40 +0000 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <4B474194.8050802@gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B474194.8050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B4744D8.7040609@gmail.com> Robin Cornelius wrote: > Lance Corrimal wrote: >> in r3082: > Confirmed one of the recent commits is triggering this condition on non > standalone builds, i'll take a peek > http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-428 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/96a2d7f4/attachment.pgp From kf6kjg at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 07:27:38 2010 From: kf6kjg at gmail.com (Ricky) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:27:38 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <1e01733d1001080537m2f012a6bh7c8c0ef1fd290e39@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> <139901.60070.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e01733d1001080537m2f012a6bh7c8c0ef1fd290e39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3bb9647e1001080727i67d713d3wb78ff3c8723ada64@mail.gmail.com> I agree. For the maximum distance of motion, a form of friction (body damping) could be used. That would likely take care of the linear case's rubberbanding. Ricky Cron Stardust On Friday, January 8, 2010, Aleric Inglewood wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 5:24 AM, surangika ranathunga wrote: > > > (well, I did have sometimes noticed the avatars (even my avatar) going back slightly and again start moving forward). > > > Called "rubber banding", very annoying. If you could improve that > then I'd be very interested in reviewing your patch and committing it. > > From merov at lindenlab.com Fri Jan 8 10:39:19 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:39:19 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <4B4744D8.7040609@gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B474194.8050802@gmail.com> <4B4744D8.7040609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78f69851001081039y4885f240n5d4bc926e01dbbef@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Thanks Robin for creating the JIRA, I'll comment there. Yes, apparently, one of the lib changes I introduced broken things on Linux. I'm surprised though as Thickbrick did a build before I committed. Hmm... Anyway, I'll confirm the breakage with a local Linux build and backpedal on the likely freetype library update culprit. Cheers, - Merov PS: I can't seem to get in on IRC #opensl right now... On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Robin Cornelius wrote: > Robin Cornelius wrote: > > Lance Corrimal wrote: > >> in r3082: > > > Confirmed one of the recent commits is triggering this condition on non > > standalone builds, i'll take a peek > > > > http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-428 > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/40abe053/attachment.htm From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 10:43:09 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:43:09 +0000 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001081039y4885f240n5d4bc926e01dbbef@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001072212g74d82e47v583976d165a05a32@mail.gmail.com> <201001081238.31763.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B474194.8050802@gmail.com> <4B4744D8.7040609@gmail.com> <78f69851001081039y4885f240n5d4bc926e01dbbef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B477CBD.6060205@gmail.com> Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks Robin for creating the JIRA, I'll comment there. > > Yes, apparently, one of the lib changes I introduced broken things on > Linux. I'm surprised though as Thickbrick did a build before I > committed. Hmm... Anyway, I'll confirm the breakage with a local Linux > build and backpedal on the likely freetype library update culprit. > I don't believe when a new lib comes out and you are tracking trunk for instance, that any clean up of the old lib is done. The libs are just downloaded and un-tared on top of anythinlg that exists. Thickbrick probably had the required header file left over from the previous lib and in this particular case it let his build complete just fine. Robin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/7627f501/attachment.pgp From dahliatrimble at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 10:51:18 2010 From: dahliatrimble at gmail.com (Dahlia Trimble) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:51:18 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: <3bb9647e1001080727i67d713d3wb78ff3c8723ada64@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> <139901.60070.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e01733d1001080537m2f012a6bh7c8c0ef1fd290e39@mail.gmail.com> <3bb9647e1001080727i67d713d3wb78ff3c8723ada64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I thought each terse update packet includes the sim time dilation at the time the update was generated. Could this be used to scale the velocity to slow the motion down? (if it's not already). May not help for network lag but should help for heavily loaded sims. -Dahlia On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Ricky wrote: > I agree. For the maximum distance of motion, a form of friction (body > damping) could be used. That would likely take care of the linear > case's rubberbanding. > > Ricky > Cron Stardust > > On Friday, January 8, 2010, Aleric Inglewood > wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 5:24 AM, surangika ranathunga < > lady_radsu at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > (well, I did have sometimes noticed the avatars (even my avatar) going > back slightly and again start moving forward). > > > > > > Called "rubber banding", very annoying. If you could improve that > > then I'd be very interested in reviewing your patch and committing it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100108/fa6bcd2b/attachment.htm From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Fri Jan 8 12:51:14 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 21:51:14 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <4B477CBD.6060205@gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001081039y4885f240n5d4bc926e01dbbef@mail.gmail.com> <4B477CBD.6060205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001082151.14717.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Am Freitag 08 Januar 2010 schrieb Robin Cornelius: > Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Thanks Robin for creating the JIRA, I'll comment there. > > > > Yes, apparently, one of the lib changes I introduced broken > > things on Linux. I'm surprised though as Thickbrick did a build > > before I committed. Hmm... Anyway, I'll confirm the breakage with > > a local Linux build and backpedal on the likely freetype library > > update culprit. > > I don't believe when a new lib comes out and you are tracking trunk > for instance, that any clean up of the old lib is done. The libs > are just downloaded and un-tared on top of anythinlg that exists. > > Thickbrick probably had the required header file left over from the > previous lib and in this particular case it let his build complete > just fine. > > Robin > i did a manual fix in llfont.cpp but now the build breaks elsewhere: [ 82%] Building CXX object newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife- bin.dir/llstartup.cpp.o /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/newview/llstartup.cpp: In function 'bool login_show(const LLSavedLogins&)': /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/newview/llstartup.cpp:3310: error: 'saved_login_entries' was not declared in this scope make[2]: *** [newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife-bin.dir/llstartup.cpp.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife-bin.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.VUkmXK (%build) bye, LC From thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 14:51:09 2010 From: thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com (Thickbrick Sleaford) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:51:09 +0200 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <201001082151.14717.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B477CBD.6060205@gmail.com> <201001082151.14717.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <201001090051.09385.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> > Am Freitag 08 Januar 2010 schrieb Robin Cornelius: > > I don't believe when a new lib comes out and you are tracking trunk > > for instance, that any clean up of the old lib is done. The libs > > are just downloaded and un-tared on top of anythinlg that exists. > > > > Thickbrick probably had the required header file left over from the > > previous lib and in this particular case it let his build complete > > just fine. Umm... oops, sorry about that. Yes, I did have the orphan header in my build tree: libraries/i686-linux/include/llfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h On Friday 08 January 2010 22:51:14 Lance Corrimal wrote: > i did a manual fix in llfont.cpp but now the build breaks elsewhere: > [ 82%] Building CXX object newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife- > bin.dir/llstartup.cpp.o > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/newview/llstartup.cpp: In > function 'bool login_show(const LLSavedLogins&)': > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/newview/llstartup.cpp:3310: > error: 'saved_login_entries' was not declared in this scope This is the same breakage Viktoria commented about in http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-129 . saved_login_entries is hidden behind a macro: #ifdef LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD The version of that patch I tried last did work with the macro lines commented out, but the variable name was changed since then... I will commit a fix for this one soon (s/saved_login_entries/saved_logins/) Thickbrick From thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 18:17:25 2010 From: thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com (Thickbrick Sleaford) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 04:17:25 +0200 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <201001082151.14717.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B477CBD.6060205@gmail.com> <201001082151.14717.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <201001090417.25614.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> On Friday 08 January 2010 22:51:14 Lance Corrimal wrote: > > i did a manual fix in llfont.cpp but now the build breaks elsewhere: > [ 82%] Building CXX object newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife- > bin.dir/llstartup.cpp.o > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/newview/llstartup.cpp: In > function 'bool login_show(const LLSavedLogins&)': > /usr/src/packages/BUILD/linden/indra/newview/llstartup.cpp:3310: > error: 'saved_login_entries' was not declared in this scope > make[2]: *** [newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife-bin.dir/llstartup.cpp.o] > Error 1 > make[1]: *** [newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife-bin.dir/all] Error 2 > make: *** [all] Error 2 > error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.VUkmXK (%build) > The fix for this is in Snowglobe trunk now (http://svn.secondlife.com/trac/linden/changeset/3084 ,) but it seems there are other build breakers still (at least for Darwin.) The last good build on @sldev-commits was 3071. From merov at lindenlab.com Sat Jan 9 00:20:07 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:20:07 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 Message-ID: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Holidays kept us from doing the weekly update since a couple of weeks. This week's update is here though and it is also the first Snowglobe 1.3 RC! Took us a while to nail build issues tonight but eventually 3085 made the trick (thanks Thickbrick for working out the kinks with me). Also note that that build will likely (i.e. baring showstoppers) be the one we'll be testing at Thursday's collaborative sprint. - New features: . SNOW-129 Select account from list at login : this is a *great* feature for all power users handling several avatars. Thanks to Cypren, Aleric and Thickbrick for this one. . SNOW-238 Add SOCKS 5 proxy support : now one less issue for people using SL behind a corporate firewall. Thanks go to Robin. - Bugs fixed: . SNOW-197 Avatar overall true height info to appearance editor window . SNOW-205 Texture console oddness/overwriting itself . SNOW-287 Build of LLPlugin fails on 64bit linux due to non PIC code linking into the DSO . SNOW-362 Build error: 'skip' is not a member of 'tut::test_result' . SNOW-396 Shortcut for Groups Ctrl-Shift-G . SNOW-401 Take off Items Inventory folder option 'removes eyes' from (Worn) . SNOW-406 Update the proxy support to allow http proxy only, without using the socks server . SNOW-408 Shutdown core dump . SNOW-413 Potential null pointer exception in multi-slider control . SNOW-415 Viewer prints always "WARNING: cleanup: Quitting with pending background tasks" . SNOW-422 ' is used uninitialized in this function inlldarray.h . SNOW-428 FTBFS lfreetype2/freetype/ft2build.h: No such file or directory Downloads: Windows: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3085/Snowglobe_1-3-0-3085_Setup.exe Darwin: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3085/Snowglobe_1_3_0_3085_SNOWGLOBETESTBUILD.dmg Linux: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3085/Snowglobe-i686-1.3.0.3085.tar.bz2 Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/73b2a3e8/attachment.htm From merov at lindenlab.com Sat Jan 9 00:34:14 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:34:14 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Pluginapi Documentation Message-ID: <78f69851001090034l65a72017m6e897d792deadbd3@mail.gmail.com> Hi, After much ado, here's the documentation for the pluginapi, complete with technical overview and example code: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Media_Rendering_Plugin_System There's still kinks to work out but that should give a good start for anyone interested in giving that API a good shake and adding new media renderers to SL. Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/04b9fa52/attachment.htm From merov at lindenlab.com Sat Jan 9 00:36:06 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:36:06 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3080 In-Reply-To: <201001090417.25614.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> References: <20100108022237.e2edb0ba.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B477CBD.6060205@gmail.com> <201001082151.14717.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <201001090417.25614.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78f69851001090036x65b173d0w4be7f731c6fde69f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Thickbrick Sleaford < thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com> wrote: > > The fix for this is in Snowglobe trunk now > (http://svn.secondlife.com/trac/linden/changeset/3084 ,) but it seems > there > are other build breakers still (at least for Darwin.) > > The last good build on @sldev-commits was 3071. > Looks like 3085 was the one to end that thread. Pffew... Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/263abda3/attachment.htm From thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 04:43:14 2010 From: thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com (Thickbrick Sleaford) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 14:43:14 +0200 Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions In-Reply-To: References: <4B46562C.6000204@fishkill.ibm.com> <3bb9647e1001080727i67d713d3wb78ff3c8723ada64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001091443.14203.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> On Friday 08 January 2010 20:51:18 Dahlia Trimble wrote: > I thought each terse update packet includes the sim time dilation at the > time the update was generated. Could this be used to scale the velocity to > slow the motion down? (if it's not already). May not help for network lag > but should help for heavily loaded sims. > > -Dahlia > The time dilation is used in LLViewerObject::idleUpdate (llviewerobject.cpp starting at around line 1980.) every frame to interpolate velocity, position angular velocity, and rotation for moving objects. Maybe an optimization could be to factor in the sim's last known time dilation somehow together with the time dilation when the interpolated object last received an update (mTimeDilation)? I think the way it tries to compensate for the fact that the sim sends velocity averaged over the last sim frame is wrong. I think for the case of constant acceleration this would be wrong: LLVector3 delta_pos = (vel + (0.5f * (dt-PHYSICS_TIMESTEP)) * accel) * dt; (dt there is the time since the last viewer frame (compensated for sim time dilation). That doesn't make much sense to me, but maybe I'm missing something. A better way is to do: vel = vel + accel * (0.5f * PHYSICS_TIMESTEP * mTimeDilation) in LLViewerObject::processUpdateMessage. Also, note that ping interpolation doesn't do what it says it does (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-390 ) Thickbrick From open at autistici.org Sat Jan 9 07:18:19 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:18:19 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:20:07 -0800, "Philippe (Merov) Bossut" wrote: > . SNOW-129 Select account from list at login : this is a *great* > feature for all power users handling several avatars. > Thanks to Cypren, Aleric and Thickbrick for this one. I see a layout issue when using Italian language, so I just reopened SNOW-129 and added a comment and a snapshot https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/33474/SNOW-129.jpg https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-129 (BTW thanks to everybody that made this, it's great!) ciao, Opensource Obscure -- http://opensourceobscure.com From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Sat Jan 9 08:28:56 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 17:28:56 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Am Samstag 09 Januar 2010 schrieb Opensource Obscure: > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:20:07 -0800, "Philippe (Merov) Bossut" > > wrote: > > . SNOW-129 Select account from list at login : this is a *great* > > feature for all power users handling several avatars. > > Thanks to Cypren, Aleric and Thickbrick for this one. Now here's a puzzle: I'm running snowglobe 1.3.0.3085 on two computers. It definitely is the same binary on both (installed from my selfbuilt rpm package). On one computer i have a grid selector dropdown on the login screen, on the other i dont 0.o From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Sat Jan 9 08:31:01 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 17:31:01 +0100 Subject: [sldev] feature suggestion: "Logout" choice in the file menu Message-ID: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Here's a feature suggestion, directly derived from that new "saved logins" feature: a "logout" option in the file menu that would get you back to the login screen without having to restart the application.. should i post a jira for it? From tigrospottystripes at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 08:40:24 2010 From: tigrospottystripes at gmail.com (Tigro Spottystripes) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:40:24 -0200 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <4B48B178.3010609@Gmail.com> It can be the same binary, but they are probably not reading the same settings files Lance Corrimal escreveu: > Am Samstag 09 Januar 2010 schrieb Opensource Obscure: > >> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:20:07 -0800, "Philippe (Merov) Bossut" >> >> wrote: >> >>> . SNOW-129 Select account from list at login : this is a *great* >>> feature for all power users handling several avatars. >>> Thanks to Cypren, Aleric and Thickbrick for this one. >>> > > > Now here's a puzzle: > > I'm running snowglobe 1.3.0.3085 on two computers. It definitely is > the same binary on both (installed from my selfbuilt rpm package). > On one computer i have a grid selector dropdown on the login screen, > on the other i dont 0.o > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > From I_really_needed_a_new_mailbox at gmx.de Sat Jan 9 08:47:00 2010 From: I_really_needed_a_new_mailbox at gmx.de (Zai Lynch) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 17:47:00 +0100 Subject: [sldev] feature suggestion: "Logout" choice in the file menu In-Reply-To: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: (Sorry for the double, Lance. Replied off-list again (x_X)) It's indeed a nice idea. The suggestion is already filed in the JIRA and the link is: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1607 Maybe it can become a SNOW issue in case someone wants to tinker with it? 2010/1/9 Lance Corrimal > Here's a feature suggestion, directly derived from that new "saved > logins" feature: > > a "logout" option in the file menu that would get you back to the > login screen without having to restart the application.. > > > should i post a jira for it? > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/599b5289/attachment.htm From elllamcmahon at googlemail.com Sat Jan 9 08:47:35 2010 From: elllamcmahon at googlemail.com (Ellla McMahon) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 16:47:35 +0000 Subject: [sldev] feature suggestion: "Logout" choice in the file menu In-Reply-To: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <98e40fa01001090847n3787619ei213e81cf88c61e37@mail.gmail.com> There's a number of issues on pJIRA which request this New Feature. Try http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4427 or one of the linked issues. 2010/1/9 Lance Corrimal > Here's a feature suggestion, directly derived from that new "saved > logins" feature: > > a "logout" option in the file menu that would get you back to the > login screen without having to restart the application.. > > > should i post a jira for it? > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/513da3db/attachment.htm From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 10:32:00 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:32:00 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: <4B48B178.3010609@Gmail.com> References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B48B178.3010609@Gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B48CBA0.3040708@gmail.com> Tigro Spottystripes wrote: > It can be the same binary, but they are probably not reading the same > settings files Yes the user settings file in :- ~/.secondlife/user_settings/settings.xml (linux) or C:/Documents and Settings//Application Data/Secondlife/user_settings/settings.xml (windows) will override the one supplied with the binary so you have a saved preference to show the grid box on one of your systems. Robin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/fb9f60d3/attachment.pgp From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 10:37:42 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:37:42 +0000 Subject: [sldev] feature suggestion: "Logout" choice in the file menu In-Reply-To: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <4B48CCF6.4010001@gmail.com> Lance Corrimal wrote: > Here's a feature suggestion, directly derived from that new "saved > logins" feature: > > a "logout" option in the file menu that would get you back to the > login screen without having to restart the application.. > > This was actually done for meerkat a while back, from what I understand its a very intrusive change as pretty much none of the classes expect to be reused so there are some significant changes needed to the code base. I'm not saying the idea is bad one just an observation of an implementation of this. Robin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/445c8647/attachment.pgp From neil at knowsense.co.uk Sat Jan 9 11:23:52 2010 From: neil at knowsense.co.uk (Neil Canham) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 19:23:52 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Receiving mouse/keyboard events with LLMediaAPI plugins Message-ID: <55970.1263065032@knowsense.co.uk> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }The release of the wiki notes has revived my interest in the media plugins. Something I still don't understand - I see that the plugins can receive mouse and keyboard events from the PLS, ultimately from the viewer. Is there a viewer yet with the ability to deliver these events? There is a message that tells the plugin when it has focus, but how is/will the concept of focus be handled - prim surface needs to have focus to receive those events. Also, with the browser plugin already developed, once mouse / keyboard events can be consumed and I presume distributed to all clients in view of the prim, are there security issues - if I log into an authenticated site, I guess those log in keystrokes are delivered to all the clients so they see the login occur too. So my login cookie is in their SL browser cache...? Excited and puzzled in equal measure. Neil Canham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/d918152f/attachment.htm From aleric.inglewood at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 11:25:59 2010 From: aleric.inglewood at gmail.com (Aleric Inglewood) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 20:25:59 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <1e01733d1001091125y488cf884g3f6d9b76ab89ac78@mail.gmail.com> The intended behavior is: In a debug build, always show the grid selector. In a release build, only show it if UseDebugLogin is set to TRUE (default is FALSE) OR if you have at least two different grids (servers / loginuir's) in your saved_logins.xml file. However, the latter was changed by http://svn.secondlife.com/trac/linden/changeset/3084 Not sure what the intended behavior is now. UseDebugLogin was even removed. On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote: > Now here's a puzzle: > > I'm running snowglobe 1.3.0.3085 on two computers. It definitely is > the same binary on both (installed from my selfbuilt rpm package). > On one computer i have a grid selector dropdown on the login screen, > on the other i dont 0.o > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Sat Jan 9 11:58:54 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 20:58:54 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? Message-ID: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Just saw this on a forum... "SL is catching up to BM in the visual area with SL 2.0 which will have global illumination (shadow), direct mesh model import and C++ programming, it's due to release in by March." SL 2.0 due in march, with all those new features? Can't be based on snowglobe then... ...so what are we doing here? And where's the SL 2.0 source? bye, LC From stickman at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 12:07:44 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:07:44 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: Nyx Linden has denied the rumor that mesh model import will exist in whatever M Linden implied will be happening in March. On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote: > Just saw this on a forum... > > "SL is catching up to BM in the visual area with SL 2.0 which will > have global illumination (shadow), direct mesh model import and C++ > programming, it's due to release in by March." > > > SL 2.0 due in march, with all those new features? > > Can't be based on snowglobe then... > ...so what are we doing here? > > And where's the SL 2.0 source? > > bye, > LC > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From open at autistici.org Sat Jan 9 12:18:32 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 20:18:32 +0000 Subject: [sldev] =?utf-8?q?SL_2=2E0=3F?= In-Reply-To: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 20:58:54 +0100, Lance Corrimal wrote: > Just saw this on a forum... > > "SL is catching up to BM in the visual area with SL 2.0 which will > have global illumination (shadow), direct mesh model import and C++ > programming, it's due to release in by March." (I assume you already read recent articles in the official LL blog) * re: rendering shadows are already in the main viewer (even if not enabled by default, and you must use Debug Settings to enable them) since 8 months ago, you could also compile sources from the Render-pipeline branch and build a viewer with even more advanced illumination features, e.g. - projected textures: http://friendfeed.com/secondlife/c3a6d17b/how-to-build-your-own-sl-viewer-with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaMtPsL_aaE - projected video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHF6y_iqTi8 according to Andrew Linden, the rendering in SL Viewer 2.0 will be the same than in Snowglobe http://friendfeed.com/secondlife/6029352b/some-details-about-future-development-of * re: programming don't expect C++, but C# instead. I didn't hear any ETA about it, but according to Babbage Linden, "the C# implementation in SL is going to be fairly complete". (Personally I think that will come some time after the new Viewer release) you won't find Viewer 2.0 sources yet, but we had some confirmation from various Linden employees that Viewer 2.0 will still be open source. also read what Andrew Linden said about this at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Andrew_Linden/Office_Hours/2010_01_07#msg_53 HTH. ciao, Opensource Obscure -- http://opensourceobscure.com - http://friendfeed.com/oobscure From holydoughnuts at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 12:29:46 2010 From: holydoughnuts at gmail.com (Tori C.) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 15:29:46 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e0db80e1001091229k2bd6d429id13e06ca983c69e1@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > . SNOW-129 Select account from list at login : this is a *great* feature for > all power users handling several avatars. Thanks to Cypren, Aleric and > Thickbrick for this one. Sorry for the "me too", but can't help it. Other viewers have played with this idea, but this is the first implementation that's given me that "yeah, that's how it should work!" feeling. From thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 12:59:32 2010 From: thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com (Thickbrick Sleaford) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:59:32 +0200 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe update : build 3085 In-Reply-To: <1e01733d1001091125y488cf884g3f6d9b76ab89ac78@mail.gmail.com> References: <78f69851001090020y6af140aeib17bf39e04d07b8c@mail.gmail.com> <201001091728.56691.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <1e01733d1001091125y488cf884g3f6d9b76ab89ac78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001092259.32928.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> On Saturday 09 January 2010 21:25:59 Aleric Inglewood wrote: > The intended behavior is: > > In a debug build, always show the grid selector. > In a release build, only show it if UseDebugLogin is set to TRUE > (default is FALSE) > OR if you have at least two different grids (servers / loginuir's) in > your saved_logins.xml > file. > > However, the latter was changed by > http://svn.secondlife.com/trac/linden/changeset/3084 > Not sure what the intended behavior is now. UseDebugLogin was even removed. > Post-3084 should behave the same as intended before, with the exception that it removed the dependency on build type (#ifdef LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD). The UseDebugLogin setting and the number of saved logins was ignored before that, because the constructor for LLPanelLogin didn't do anything with it's show_server parameter, and there was no UI to activate it anyway. So now it only shows the grid selection box if there is more than 1 saved login, or ForceShowGrid is activated (via Ctrl+Shift+G). That said, it was a quick patch to get it to build again, so I might have missed something. Also see SNOW-430 for changing that behavior to depend on the number of saved *grids* instead of the number of saved *logins* (since a common case is a user who doesn't care about different grids but has more than 1 account on Agni.) http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-430 Thickbrick From missannotoole at yahoo.com Sat Jan 9 15:44:51 2010 From: missannotoole at yahoo.com (Ann Otoole) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 15:44:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> That's too bad because mesh will be a "game changer" and I can't wait. (Now that I am quietly making meshes) I do think (wish) LL should give us some info on what the meshes will need to conform to for upload. ________________________________ From: Stickman To: Lance Corrimal Cc: sldev at lists.secondlife.com Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 3:07:44 PM Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? Nyx Linden has denied the rumor that mesh model import will exist in whatever M Linden implied will be happening in March. On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote: > Just saw this on a forum... > > "SL is catching up to BM in the visual area with SL 2.0 which will > have global illumination (shadow), direct mesh model import and C++ > programming, it's due to release in by March." > > > SL 2.0 due in march, with all those new features? > > Can't be based on snowglobe then... > ...so what are we doing here? > > And where's the SL 2.0 source? > > bye, > LC > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > _______________________________________________ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100109/8f205603/attachment.htm From snowfox102 at dragonkeepcreations.com Sat Jan 9 16:19:00 2010 From: snowfox102 at dragonkeepcreations.com (Maya Remblai) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:19:00 -0600 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <4B491CF4.5030402@dragonkeepcreations.com> Lance Corrimal wrote: > "SL is catching up to BM in the visual area with SL 2.0 which will > have global illumination (shadow), direct mesh model import and C++ > programming, it's due to release in by March." > > Bout freaking time. All I care to say is, avatar alpha masking had better be in there, or the remaining content creators will be even more angry. Seriously, an entire YEAR to implement that, when Nyx could demo it in-world LAST March? Sad. But no, no binaries. It's in closed alpha according to Alexa, I think it was. What logic there is in alpha testing themselves rather than using their assigned alpha testing group, I do not know. And if it was M that posted that, take it with a grain of salt. I don't recall him ever posting anything that was entirely accurate. AOL ate his brain. ;) Maya, who is disillusioned with SL and is not holding her breath. From stickman at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 16:21:25 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 16:21:25 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I do think (wish) LL should give us some info on what the meshes will need > to conform to for upload. You could always ask. Sniff around at various office hours until someone's willing to give you the info, even if it's on the side. -Stickman From marinekelley at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 00:55:56 2010 From: marinekelley at gmail.com (Marine Kelley) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:55:56 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <9e52a8c11001100055l768f2414pad4b465f1ebbf9d@mail.gmail.com> Uuuh... Please remove an horrible doubt from my mind... You are talking about the implementation of a C# parser for Mono here, right ? Not about the viewer source being switched from C++ to C# ? Right ? Because if the viewer source goes C#, then all the current third-party viewers are as good as dead, since they will be rendered obsolete as soon as "Viewer 2.0" enters the scene. Some may be entirely rewritten from scratch, but I'm not sure most have enough free time to totally redo a work that they already did during the last 2 or 3 years ! 2010/1/9 Opensource Obscure > > * re: programming > don't expect C++, but C# instead. I didn't hear any > ETA about it, but according to Babbage Linden, "the C# > implementation in SL is going to be fairly complete". > (Personally I think that will come some time after > the new Viewer release) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100110/7e40c9df/attachment.htm From open at autistici.org Sun Jan 10 02:34:57 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:34:57 +0000 Subject: [sldev] =?utf-8?q?SL_2=2E0=3F?= In-Reply-To: <9e52a8c11001100055l768f2414pad4b465f1ebbf9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <9e52a8c11001100055l768f2414pad4b465f1ebbf9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:55:56 +0100, Marine Kelley wrote: > Uuuh... Please remove an horrible doubt from my mind... You are talking > about the implementation of a C# parser for Mono here, right ? Not about > the > viewer source being switched from C++ to C# ? Right ? Right. More details: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2010_01_06 http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden bye Opensource Obscure -- http://twitter.com/oobscure From marinekelley at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 02:58:48 2010 From: marinekelley at gmail.com (Marine Kelley) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:58:48 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <9e52a8c11001100055l768f2414pad4b465f1ebbf9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9e52a8c11001100258p7f88ac04w8504152e53d09d95@mail.gmail.com> Phew ! Thanks I'll sleep better now ! 2010/1/10 Opensource Obscure > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:55:56 +0100, Marine Kelley > wrote: > > Uuuh... Please remove an horrible doubt from my mind... You are talking > > about the implementation of a C# parser for Mono here, right ? Not about > > the > > viewer source being switched from C++ to C# ? Right ? > > Right. More details: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2010_01_06 > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden > > bye > Opensource Obscure > -- > http://twitter.com/oobscure > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100110/71fb5fcd/attachment-0001.htm From lenglish5 at cox.net Sun Jan 10 16:58:52 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:58:52 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> Ann Otoole wrote: > That's too bad because mesh will be a "game changer" and I can't wait. > (Now that I am quietly making meshes) > > I do think (wish) LL should give us some info on what the meshes will > need to conform to for upload. In-world meshes won't be a "game changer" until in-world tools exist to create/modify them. Otherwise, Blue Mars would be a "game changer" already, and by most accounts, it is not. Lawson From missannotoole at yahoo.com Sun Jan 10 17:37:00 2010 From: missannotoole at yahoo.com (Ann Otoole) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:37:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> Message-ID: <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Sculpties are blobs of melted plastic compared to mesh. (Assuming mesh import is not just a new sculpty that loses all the fine detail when rezzed) When mesh is delivered (correctly) then people will want the better looking mesh based content. Things will change. And a lot of money will change hands when it does. And if LL takes the technology farther out to where it needs to be so we can construct completely custom avatars to go with all the better more detailed builds then all the better. However there will continue to be a need for low geometry sims for the corporate and educational use cases as well as for people entering SL with less than optimal hardware. Then, if they want to have a good experience with the more detailed areas and builds, they can choose to upgrade. So the "game" will change. For those that can afford it. As for bringing tools into the viewer well that SL v2 has to be open source and then some clever person with time and motivation on their hands can bring in the functionality from the open source 3D modelers that makes sense to be brought in. And that interface will still be necessarily more complex than the normal resident can use so the question must be asked why bother when you can work in a purpose built design environment and upload the model file. ________________________________ From: Lawson English To: Ann Otoole Cc: sldev at lists.secondlife.com Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:58:52 PM Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? Ann Otoole wrote: > That's too bad because mesh will be a "game changer" and I can't wait. (Now that I am quietly making meshes) > > I do think (wish) LL should give us some info on what the meshes will need to conform to for upload. In-world meshes won't be a "game changer" until in-world tools exist to create/modify them. Otherwise, Blue Mars would be a "game changer" already, and by most accounts, it is not. Lawson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100110/dd221e0d/attachment.htm From lenglish5 at cox.net Sun Jan 10 19:26:28 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:26:28 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B4A9A64.8050505@cox.net> Ann Otoole wrote: > Sculpties are blobs of melted plastic compared to mesh. (Assuming mesh > import is not just a new sculpty that loses all the fine detail when > rezzed) > > When mesh is delivered (correctly) then people will want the better > looking mesh based content. Things will change. And a lot of money > will change hands when it does. And if LL takes the technology farther > out to where it needs to be so we can construct completely custom > avatars to go with all the better more detailed builds then all the > better. > > However there will continue to be a need for low geometry sims for the > corporate and educational use cases as well as for people entering SL > with less than optimal hardware. Then, if they want to have a good > experience with the more detailed areas and builds, they can choose to > upgrade. > > So the "game" will change. For those that can afford it. > > As for bringing tools into the viewer well that SL v2 has to be open > source and then some clever person with time and motivation on their > hands can bring in the functionality from the open source 3D modelers > that makes sense to be brought in. And that interface will still be > necessarily more complex than the normal resident can use so the > question must be asked why bother when you can work in a purpose built > design environment and upload the model file. > So why does id Software spend so much time and money developing "in-world" tools for their professionals? The answer is: from an artistic view, being able to work with the in-world lighting model to tweak the models is essential. From a designer's point of view, being able to see the world from the player's POV is also essential. And extending that, a good part of the attraction of SL is collaboration and immersion. Not being able to watch someone build something in SL from within SL will make the system less attractive, IMHO. This last is just intuition but I'm willing to bet that mesh-based in-world tools will become quite popular, even if they aren't up to the standards of Maya or ZBrush or even blender, UI/feature-wise. Lawson From melinda at superliminal.com Sun Jan 10 19:34:31 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:34:31 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> Meshes will give an amazing improvement to the flexibility of building but they will not be a replacement for most current uses of sculpties. Sure, some cases where people have managed to painfully create polygonal forms will be more efficiently remodeled using meshes, but all of the lovely organically shaped models that have been modeled using sculpties will be best left just as they are. This is not a boon for the user resource haves versus have-nots, or if it is, it's the other way around from what you describe in that it will be a boon for people with low-end systems who will be able to experience the same levels of realism they currently enjoy but with faster frame rates that will be possible when inefficient built prim and sculpty content is replaced with more efficient mesh versions. I don't think that it will be even possible for open-source developers to bring mesh modeling into SL. Aside from overall transforms and textures, I doubt that it will be possible to edit the topology of existing meshes any more than it is possible to edit existing textures. I therefore agree with you that it makes the most sense to do all mesh editing using external tools. What you lose in the community experience of collaborative building that Lawson mentions, you gain in the ability to make really efficient models and to easily make portable back-ups of your work. The back-up feature is the one that has long kept me from investing much effort into content generation but now it gets a lot more attractive to me and probably to professional 3D modelers as well. -Melinda Ann Otoole wrote: > Sculpties are blobs of melted plastic compared to mesh. (Assuming mesh > import is not just a new sculpty that loses all the fine detail when > rezzed) > > When mesh is delivered (correctly) then people will want the better > looking mesh based content. Things will change. And a lot of money > will change hands when it does. And if LL takes the technology farther > out to where it needs to be so we can construct completely custom > avatars to go with all the better more detailed builds then all the > better. > > However there will continue to be a need for low geometry sims for the > corporate and educational use cases as well as for people entering SL > with less than optimal hardware. Then, if they want to have a good > experience with the more detailed areas and builds, they can choose to > upgrade. > > So the "game" will change. For those that can afford it. > > As for bringing tools into the viewer well that SL v2 has to be open > source and then some clever person with time and motivation on their > hands can bring in the functionality from the open source 3D modelers > that makes sense to be brought in. And that interface will still be > necessarily more complex than the normal resident can use so the > question must be asked why bother when you can work in a purpose built > design environment and upload the model file. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Lawson English > > *To:* Ann Otoole > > *Cc:* sldev at lists.secondlife.com > *Sent:* Sun, January 10, 2010 7:58:52 PM > *Subject:* Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > > Ann Otoole wrote: > > That's too bad because mesh will be a "game changer" and I can't > wait. (Now that I am quietly making meshes) > > > > I do think (wish) LL should give us some info on what the meshes > will need to conform to for upload. > > In-world meshes won't be a "game changer" until in-world tools exist > to create/modify them. Otherwise, Blue Mars > would be a "game changer" already, and by most accounts, it is not. > > > Lawson > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From lenglish5 at cox.net Sun Jan 10 22:04:33 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:04:33 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> Melinda Green wrote: > Meshes will give an amazing improvement to the flexibility of building > but they will not be a replacement for most current uses of sculpties. > Sure, some cases where people have managed to painfully create polygonal > forms will be more efficiently remodeled using meshes, but all of the > lovely organically shaped models that have been modeled using sculpties > will be best left just as they are. > > This is not a boon for the user resource haves versus have-nots, or if > it is, it's the other way around from what you describe in that it will > be a boon for people with low-end systems who will be able to experience > the same levels of realism they currently enjoy but with faster frame > rates that will be possible when inefficient built prim and sculpty > content is replaced with more efficient mesh versions. > > I don't think that it will be even possible for open-source developers > to bring mesh modeling into SL. Aside from overall transforms and > textures, I doubt that it will be possible to edit the topology of > existing meshes any more than it is possible to edit existing textures. > I therefore agree with you that it makes the most sense to do all mesh > editing using external tools. What you lose in the community experience > of collaborative building that Lawson mentions, you gain in the ability > to make really efficient models and to easily make portable back-ups of > your work. The back-up feature is the one that has long kept me from > investing much effort into content generation but now it gets a lot more > attractive to me and probably to professional 3D modelers as well. > > > We already have the basics of texture editing inworld in the form of html on a prim, and Aimee's VNC plugin. Expecting the SL sever to track every vertex-change might not be practical, but a collaborative P2P connection between 2 or more clients ala croquet with the finish product updated to the sim server for everyone else to see, wouldn't be that difficult to work up. And, if someone cares to publish a specific dedicated server for mesh collaboration updates, the avatars of a sim and child-sims could still watch the mesh update in realtime, simply by bypassing Linden's sim servers From melinda at superliminal.com Sun Jan 10 22:42:54 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:42:54 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> Lawson English wrote: > Melinda Green wrote: >> Meshes will give an amazing improvement to the flexibility of >> building but they will not be a replacement for most current uses of >> sculpties. Sure, some cases where people have managed to painfully >> create polygonal forms will be more efficiently remodeled using >> meshes, but all of the lovely organically shaped models that have >> been modeled using sculpties will be best left just as they are. >> >> This is not a boon for the user resource haves versus have-nots, or >> if it is, it's the other way around from what you describe in that it >> will be a boon for people with low-end systems who will be able to >> experience the same levels of realism they currently enjoy but with >> faster frame rates that will be possible when inefficient built prim >> and sculpty content is replaced with more efficient mesh versions. >> >> I don't think that it will be even possible for open-source >> developers to bring mesh modeling into SL. Aside from overall >> transforms and textures, I doubt that it will be possible to edit the >> topology of existing meshes any more than it is possible to edit >> existing textures. I therefore agree with you that it makes the most >> sense to do all mesh editing using external tools. What you lose in >> the community experience of collaborative building that Lawson >> mentions, you gain in the ability to make really efficient models and >> to easily make portable back-ups of your work. The back-up feature is >> the one that has long kept me from investing much effort into content >> generation but now it gets a lot more attractive to me and probably >> to professional 3D modelers as well. >> >> >> > We already have the basics of texture editing inworld in the form of > html on a prim, and Aimee's VNC plugin. That's not texture editing, that's dynamic texturing. Cool but not the same. My point is that uploaded meshes will likely be as immutable as uploaded textures. > Expecting the SL sever to track every vertex-change might not be > practical, but a collaborative P2P connection between 2 or more > clients ala croquet with the finish product updated to the sim server > for everyone else to see, wouldn't be that difficult to work up. And, > if someone cares to publish a specific dedicated server for mesh > collaboration updates, the avatars of a sim and child-sims could still > watch the mesh update in realtime, simply by bypassing Linden's sim > servers Sounds difficult to me, but go for it if you think that the benefits outweigh the costs. -Melinda From adam at deepthink.com.au Mon Jan 11 02:40:12 2010 From: adam at deepthink.com.au (Frisby, Adam) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:40:12 -0500 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. Adam > -----Original Message----- > From: sldev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [mailto:sldev- > bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Melinda Green > Sent: Sunday, 10 January 2010 10:43 PM > To: lenglish5 at cox.net > Cc: sldev at lists.secondlife.com > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > > Lawson English wrote: > > Melinda Green wrote: > >> Meshes will give an amazing improvement to the flexibility of > >> building but they will not be a replacement for most current uses of > >> sculpties. Sure, some cases where people have managed to painfully > >> create polygonal forms will be more efficiently remodeled using > >> meshes, but all of the lovely organically shaped models that have > >> been modeled using sculpties will be best left just as they are. > >> > >> This is not a boon for the user resource haves versus have-nots, or > >> if it is, it's the other way around from what you describe in that > it > >> will be a boon for people with low-end systems who will be able to > >> experience the same levels of realism they currently enjoy but with > >> faster frame rates that will be possible when inefficient built prim > >> and sculpty content is replaced with more efficient mesh versions. > >> > >> I don't think that it will be even possible for open-source > >> developers to bring mesh modeling into SL. Aside from overall > >> transforms and textures, I doubt that it will be possible to edit > the > >> topology of existing meshes any more than it is possible to edit > >> existing textures. I therefore agree with you that it makes the most > >> sense to do all mesh editing using external tools. What you lose in > >> the community experience of collaborative building that Lawson > >> mentions, you gain in the ability to make really efficient models > and > >> to easily make portable back-ups of your work. The back-up feature > is > >> the one that has long kept me from investing much effort into > content > >> generation but now it gets a lot more attractive to me and probably > >> to professional 3D modelers as well. > >> > >> > >> > > We already have the basics of texture editing inworld in the form of > > html on a prim, and Aimee's VNC plugin. > > That's not texture editing, that's dynamic texturing. Cool but not the > same. My point is that uploaded meshes will likely be as immutable as > uploaded textures. > > > Expecting the SL sever to track every vertex-change might not be > > practical, but a collaborative P2P connection between 2 or more > > clients ala croquet with the finish product updated to the sim server > > for everyone else to see, wouldn't be that difficult to work up. And, > > if someone cares to publish a specific dedicated server for mesh > > collaboration updates, the avatars of a sim and child-sims could > still > > watch the mesh update in realtime, simply by bypassing Linden's sim > > servers > > Sounds difficult to me, but go for it if you think that the benefits > outweigh the costs. > -Melinda > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges From missannotoole at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 04:15:38 2010 From: missannotoole at yahoo.com (Ann Otoole) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:15:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> Message-ID: <678229.86982.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Then you already have every other modeling tool in world because VNC is nothing but a remote desktop control/view utility. For that matter you have Open Office and every other tool on your computer. ________________________________ From: Lawson English To: Melinda Green Cc: Ann Otoole ; sldev at lists.secondlife.com Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 1:04:33 AM Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > We already have the basics of texture editing inworld in the form of html on a prim, and Aimee's VNC plugin. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100111/d77bc890/attachment.htm From mike.dickson at hp.com Mon Jan 11 06:45:39 2010 From: mike.dickson at hp.com (Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:45:39 +0000 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <4646639E08F58B42836FAC24C94624DD79F439BE3F@GVW0433EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > Expecting the SL sever to track every vertex-change might not be > practical, but a collaborative P2P connection between 2 or more > clients ala croquet with the finish product updated to the sim server > for everyone else to see, wouldn't be that difficult to work up. And, > if someone cares to publish a specific dedicated server for mesh > collaboration updates, the avatars of a sim and child-sims could still > watch the mesh update in realtime, simply by bypassing Linden's sim > servers Sounds difficult to me, but go for it if you think that the benefits outweigh the costs. -Melinda Or perhaps a Verse enabled VW client + editing software? Of course there still needs to be a way for the VW client to push the changes up to the server in semi-real-time. Mike _______________________________________________ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From lenglish5 at cox.net Mon Jan 11 07:57:10 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:57:10 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <678229.86982.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <678229.86982.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B4B4A56.1070803@cox.net> But that's not truely "in-world" editing, IMHO. 1) no immersion/audience. 2) no lighting/rendering using the target renderer. 3) No avatar POV to see what things will look like "in-world" (including environment). Ann Otoole wrote: > Then you already have every other modeling tool in world because VNC > is nothing but a remote desktop control/view utility. For that matter > you have Open Office and every other tool on your computer. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Lawson English > > *To:* Melinda Green > > *Cc:* Ann Otoole >; sldev at lists.secondlife.com > > *Sent:* Mon, January 11, 2010 1:04:33 AM > *Subject:* Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > > > We already have the basics of texture editing inworld in the form > of html on a prim, and Aimee's VNC plugin. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From lenglish5 at cox.net Mon Jan 11 08:05:01 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:05:01 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> Message-ID: <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> Frisby, Adam wrote: > It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. > > If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools to make things look "right." The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its main attractions makes it even more important. Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. Lawson From maggie at matrisync.com Mon Jan 11 08:07:20 2010 From: maggie at matrisync.com (Maggie Leber (sl: Maggie Darwin) ) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:07:20 -0500 Subject: [sldev] SLDev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:04:33 -0700 > From: Lawson English > Expecting the SL sever to track every vertex-change might not be > practical, but a collaborative P2P connection between 2 or more clients > ala croquet with the finish product updated to the sim server for > everyone else to see, wouldn't be that difficult to work up. The security implications of having P2P connections between client machines are *huge*. Just the thought of having a malicious viewer able to discover my IP address is bad scary. -Maggie Darwin- From arseovrteakettl at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 08:16:00 2010 From: arseovrteakettl at yahoo.com (Mary Blackwell) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:16:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> Message-ID: <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way. Of course I don't mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL. Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City of VIllains. Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad idea. Just my hobbyhorse. If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable this will happen. Might as well be the ones who get rich off it. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lawson English To: "Frisby, Adam" Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? Frisby, Adam wrote: > It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. > > If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools to make things look "right." The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its main attractions makes it even more important. Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. Lawson _______________________________________________ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From lenglish5 at cox.net Mon Jan 11 08:26:39 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:26:39 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SLDev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B4B513F.5000707@cox.net> Maggie Leber (sl: Maggie Darwin) wrote: >> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:04:33 -0700 >> From: Lawson English >> Expecting the SL sever to track every vertex-change might not be >> practical, but a collaborative P2P connection between 2 or more clients >> ala croquet with the finish product updated to the sim server for >> everyone else to see, wouldn't be that difficult to work up. >> > > The security implications of having P2P connections between client > machines are *huge*. Just the thought of having a malicious viewer > able to discover my IP address is bad scary. > > Absolutely, but then again, you don't enable VNC with strangers you met in a chat room, either. Lawson From zha.ewry at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 12:37:57 2010 From: zha.ewry at gmail.com (Zha Ewry) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:37:57 -0500 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <920d7d851001111237s2a5fec3andc76183cc102d473@mail.gmail.com> I think the reason you see so much pushback on the idea of a full mesh editor inside the second life client is the sheer complexity of such tools. Building a set of complete mesh editing tools which shared frequent updates via the region would be a serious challenge. That said,I think that there are a number of basic operations one would want to be able to do to Meshed objects. Simple resizes are the obvious ones. I'd say texturing, but in general, mesh faces are harder to discretely texture. It will be very interesting to see if people have good answers to that. At the same time, there is huge power in building things in world out of small composable building blocks. I'm hopeful that Meshes in Second Life will end up being used more for components, and less for complete large chunks. I'm thinking trees, castle walls, Chairs, and such, and less complete buildings, landscapes and so on. This is even more cogent, when it comes to managing large amounts of hosted content. The bigger the mesh chunks, the more one simply has to wait for the whole mesh to arrive and be added to the client's scenegraph model before you can render it. This also hints at some interesting issues for various loads. Prims as load markers has been a somewhat broken model for a while. All prims are not equally expensive to render, nor do they take up the same simulator resources. One hopes that meshes arrive with some thought about how to manage the resources they consume. It would be really painful if the model encouraged large, bulky meshes, just to game the measurement system. ~ Zha On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mary Blackwell wrote: > I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about > porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way. ?Of course I don't > mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official > connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL. > > Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City of VIllains. > > Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad idea. > > > Just > my hobbyhorse. ?If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable > this will happen. ?Might as well be the ones who get rich off it. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lawson English > To: "Frisby, Adam" > Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" > Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > > Frisby, Adam wrote: >> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. >> >> If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. >> > > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to > the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively > high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" > tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools > to make things look "right." > > The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its > main attractions makes it even more important. > > > Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the > option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part > of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm > pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. > > > Lawson > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From secret.argent at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 16:59:26 2010 From: secret.argent at gmail.com (Argent Stonecutter) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:59:26 -0600 Subject: [sldev] SLDev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <4B4B513F.5000707@cox.net> References: <4B4B513F.5000707@cox.net> Message-ID: On 2010-01-11, at 10:26, Lawson English wrote: > Absolutely, but then again, you don't enable VNC with strangers you > met > in a chat room, either. But I can do in-world editing with them. From nexiim at googlemail.com Tue Jan 12 13:32:50 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:32:50 +0000 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <920d7d851001111237s2a5fec3andc76183cc102d473@mail.gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <920d7d851001111237s2a5fec3andc76183cc102d473@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001121332p2e708175h215c47985a6db565@mail.gmail.com> Verse might not be such an idea. One of the major use-cases of verse was that it would allow high-end tools to communicate effectively realtime. Say you have an artists working in Adobe Photoshop on a texture which are on finished parts of a mesh while your editting that mesh adding new geometry in 3Dsmax and an animator was using Maya to use that mesh as part of a small movie scene. What if we throw SL into this mix and allowed realtime updates at least for the content creator or even better a team of them or anyone else connected with the verse server while a bunch of friends in-world that are also connected to the verse server prod the mesh around and brainstorm ideas and feedback while it is being made? That sounds like the most awesome thing ever. And you know, if you have that going you might get a good chance for official support, if not, its still a highly effective form for content creation. [/ramblings][/scribbles] - Nexii On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Zha Ewry wrote: > I think the reason you see so much pushback on the idea of a full mesh > editor inside the second life client is the sheer complexity of such > tools. Building a set of complete mesh editing tools which shared > frequent updates via the region would be a serious challenge. That > said,I think that there are a number of basic operations one would > want to be able to do to Meshed objects. Simple resizes are the > obvious ones. I'd say texturing, but in general, mesh faces are harder > to discretely texture. It will be very interesting to see if people > have good answers to that. > > At the same time, there is huge power in building things in world out > of small composable building blocks. I'm hopeful that Meshes in Second > Life will end up being used more for components, and less for complete > large chunks. I'm thinking trees, castle walls, Chairs, and such, and > less complete buildings, landscapes and so on. This is even more > cogent, when it comes to managing large amounts of hosted content. The > bigger the mesh chunks, the more one simply has to wait for the whole > mesh to arrive and be added to the client's scenegraph model before > you can render it. This also hints at some interesting issues for > various loads. Prims as load markers has been a somewhat broken model > for a while. All prims are not equally expensive to render, nor do > they take up the same simulator resources. One hopes that meshes > arrive with some thought about how to manage the resources they > consume. It would be really painful if the model encouraged large, > bulky meshes, just to game the measurement system. > > ~ Zha > > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mary Blackwell > wrote: > > I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about > > porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way. Of course I don't > > mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official > > connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL. > > > > Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be > instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City > of VIllains. > > > > Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad > idea. > > > > > > Just > > my hobbyhorse. If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable > > this will happen. Might as well be the ones who get rich off it. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Lawson English > > To: "Frisby, Adam" > > Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" > > Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > > > > Frisby, Adam wrote: > >> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. > >> > >> If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much > better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe > Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. > Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - > but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. > >> > > > > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to > > the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively > > high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" > > tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools > > to make things look "right." > > > > The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its > > main attractions makes it even more important. > > > > > > Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the > > option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part > > of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm > > pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. > > > > > > Lawson > > _______________________________________________ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100112/8da8c143/attachment.htm From cypren at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 19:06:57 2010 From: cypren at gmail.com (Cypren Christenson) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:06:57 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <76170.94832.qm@web59105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> True player-generated content of the kind found in SL is never going to be an option for Blizzard, unfortunately. With that many players, and a PR need to keep their world "clean" for minors, they can't afford to let people run amok and worry about policing them. The first time a giant penis statue or a goat-sacrificing altar with a giant bloody pentagram showed up in a guildhall, it would make the national news. SL doesn't really have the same issues because it's always been pitched as a world for adults, and for many years had no barrier for adult-oriented content at all, so people aren't really shocked or alarmed even if someone does break the rules and build something inappropriate in a PG-rated zone, and cleaning it up after the fact is "good enough". Additionally, there's a serious scale problem when it comes to supporting and policing the number of people WoW has. Policy enforcement isn't a strictly linear problem, unfortunately; as your playerbase grows, the potential conflicts among the players increase exponentially, and your staff must increase to accommodate. As I recall, when WoW launched, there were about 200 GMs the first year for a playerbase of around 1.5 million. There are now about 3000 in the US and EU (a 15-fold increase) for a playerbase of around 5 million. (I'm leaving out China, since it runs by different rulesets.) I don't say this to rain on anyone's parade, but just to explain why this will never realistically happen, and why in some ways it's a blessing we don't have to support or worry about those millions of WoW players. On Jan 11, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Mary Blackwell wrote: > I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about > porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way. Of course I don't > mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official > connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL. > > Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City of VIllains. > > Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad idea. > > > Just > my hobbyhorse. If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable > this will happen. Might as well be the ones who get rich off it. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lawson English > To: "Frisby, Adam" > Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" > Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? > > Frisby, Adam wrote: >> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. >> >> If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. >> > > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to > the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively > high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" > tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools > to make things look "right." > > The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its > main attractions makes it even more important. > > > Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the > option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part > of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm > pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. > > > Lawson > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From robertltux at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 19:19:41 2010 From: robertltux at gmail.com (Robert Martin) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:19:41 -0500 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4A77CC.4020700@cox.net> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Cypren Christenson wrote: > True player-generated content of the kind found in SL is never going to be an option for Blizzard, unfortunately. .. > I don't say this to rain on anyone's parade, but just to explain why this will never realistically happen, and why in some ways it's a blessing we don't have to support or worry about those millions of WoW players. > > if blizzard and LL did some sort of deal they could maybe have some sort of "gateway" (complete this list of quests go to this location and use this device/doorway and you land up flipping over to the SL grid (or maybe it would be safer to have a "Nevada" server serving as a bridge so that you could have a "gatekeeper" NPC so folks won't be on the Main grid with all of the weapons available) -- Robert L Martin From gigstaggart at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 04:43:34 2010 From: gigstaggart at gmail.com (Jason Giglio) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:43:34 -0500 Subject: [sldev] feature suggestion: "Logout" choice in the file menu In-Reply-To: <4B48CCF6.4010001@gmail.com> References: <201001091731.02018.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B48CCF6.4010001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B4DBFF6.1020907@gmail.com> I wrote this feature. Yes it's a patch that Linden Lab might be reluctant to accept, since it does touch pretty much every high level subsystem. On the plus side, it makes them more "correct" in that they really should be correctly freeing the resources they allocate anyway. I never developed it as a standalone patch, but grabbing some of the commit diffs from meerkat SVN from July 2008 or so would give someone a big head start in knowing what needs to be fixed. -Jason Robin Cornelius wrote: > Lance Corrimal wrote: >> Here's a feature suggestion, directly derived from that new "saved >> logins" feature: >> >> a "logout" option in the file menu that would get you back to the >> login screen without having to restart the application.. >> >> > > This was actually done for meerkat a while back, from what I understand > its a very intrusive change as pretty much none of the classes expect to > be reused so there are some significant changes needed to the code base. > > I'm not saying the idea is bad one just an observation of an > implementation of this. > > Robin > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From dmahalko at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 20:42:45 2010 From: dmahalko at gmail.com (Dale Mahalko) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:42:45 -0600 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: There are other important questions to ask about SL 2.0. Will the mesh implementation support deformable meshes rather than merely static meshes? Are bones going to be supported in these meshes? And if so, how will a scripter communicate motion to a specific bone within a mesh? To make physics processing faster for complex meshes, will it be possible to have the visible mesh ignored by the engine and instead use an invisible simplified low-vertex collision-geometry mesh, that is bound to the mesh and not treated like a linkset? The idea of constructive solid geometry has been thrown around since the very beginning, as a possible "future option" but of course nothing ever developed from that. Will we see anything happen with CSG or should it just be scratched out of the playbook as unlikely to ever be done? Will a hierarchy of objects be permitted, with an editable, rearrangeable list of object members? I don't mean anything like the current slopped together linkset system. I mean a real hierarchy editor window, with the ability to edit or remove a single child object without delinking everything and the order of objects in the hierarchy then getting all messed up on the mass-relink. If LL's history is any indication, SL 2.0 will just assume by default that everyone has a 50 megabit Internet connection, and if you have a mere 256 kbit you are not going to be able to do much of anything. (Where's the official support for an organizational-level proxied asset/texture cache? I've pretty much given up hope that LL will ever care about its limited-bandwifth users with a huge number of people on a limited pipe, like at schools.) - Scalar Tardis / Dale Mahalko From q at lindenlab.com Wed Jan 13 21:55:33 2010 From: q at lindenlab.com (Kent Quirk (Q Linden)) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:55:33 -0500 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:42 PM, Dale Mahalko wrote: > There are other important questions to ask about SL 2.0. > > Will the mesh implementation... NO. I don't know how the mesh rumor got started, but it's already been stated in this thread that 2.0 will NOT include mesh support. All the questions are interesting, but they don't apply yet. > > If LL's history is any indication, SL 2.0 will just assume by default > that everyone has a 50 megabit Internet connection, and if you have a > mere 256 kbit you are not going to be able to do much of anything. > (Where's the official support for an organizational-level proxied > asset/texture cache? I've pretty much given up hope that LL will ever > care about its limited-bandwifth users with a huge number of people on > a limited pipe, like at schools.) Well, I'd like it if you wouldn't give up hope. It's a hard problem, and you're not likely to see much change in viewer 2.0. But with the advent of lighter-weight computing devices at all levels, we do have to evolve a more bandwidth-flexible set of protocols, and it's an issue that has become a regular part of our thinking as we consider the future. Q From merov at lindenlab.com Wed Jan 13 23:16:03 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:16:03 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe 1.3 Test Sprint Message-ID: <78f69851001132316h589f605aifbfca0dca7f3e194@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Just a reminder that tomorrow Hippo meeting will be devoted to testing Snowglobe 1.3 and will therefore be a 2 hours (or more really) session. I updated the agenda with details: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda Hope to see you there! Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100113/a08bdb84/attachment.htm From adam at deepthink.com.au Thu Jan 14 07:50:43 2010 From: adam at deepthink.com.au (Frisby, Adam) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:50:43 -0500 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE526BD@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> > > Will the mesh implementation... > > NO. > > I don't know how the mesh rumor got started, ... Probably because it's such an obvious feature. ;) From carlo at alinoe.com Thu Jan 14 08:39:14 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:39:14 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100114163914.GA10727@alinoe.com> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:42:45PM -0600, Dale Mahalko wrote: > If LL's history is any indication, SL 2.0 will just assume by default > that everyone has a 50 megabit Internet connection, and if you have a > mere 256 kbit you are not going to be able to do much of anything. > (Where's the official support for an organizational-level proxied > asset/texture cache? I've pretty much given up hope that LL will ever > care about its limited-bandwifth users with a huge number of people on > a limited pipe, like at schools.) That's strange, I had the exactly opposite feeling: namely that LL is only interested in supporting the low-end hardware users, because they are apparently the majority, still. If they'd walk out then that would cost a lot of money. -- Carlo Wood From nexisentertainment at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 12:54:01 2010 From: nexisentertainment at gmail.com (Rob Nelson) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:54:01 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Viewer-side scripting and 3rd-Party Viewer Policy? Message-ID: <1263502441.8786.41.camel@RAGE> Hello sldev. I realize that I've asked this in IRC already, but the only answer I got was from a non-Linden and I want to hear it from the horse's mouth before continuing on my current path of feature additions. I'm working on a viewer that will be adding viewer-side embedded scripting (Lua, if anyone is curious, see http://lua.org) in order to allow content creators to extend the abilities of the content they create. However, during development, a beta tester brought up a few potential issues with the ToS and 3rd Party Viewer Policy (henceforth known as the 3PVP). The Lua implementation I'm adding is highly event-driven, so whenever, for example, a sound is played in the sim, the following event is triggered with the corresponding arguments: OnAttachedSound (object_id,audio_uuid,owner_id,gain,flags) Notice that the UUID of the sound is passed to the Lua script hooking into the event. This is so I can, for example, produce an automatic mute function by checking the UUID of the sound being played against a list of known-bad sound UUIDs. if isInTable(gAutoMuteSounds,audio_uuid) then muteAvatar(owner_id) However, it doesn't take any stretch of the mind to see how a user could abuse this system by simply printing or logging the sound UUIDs. Similar issues exist with particles and object textures. What I would like to know from any LL employee willing to answer is: 1. If I provide a reasonable level of permissions checking and anti-content theft functions, and discourage such ToS/3PVP-breakage (and moderate user-posted scripts in accordance with such policies), will the viewer I am working on still violate the 3PVP/ToS for simply making those UUIDs available to user scripts? 2. What minimum restrictions must I apply to comply with LL policies? Keep in mind that I cannot check Attached Soundsystems since the permissions to that sound are not made available. There will also be no llGiveMoney-type function, nor will the messaging system be made available to allow a workaround. Login-related events will not be made in order to prevent password theft. Alienating or exposing users is not my intent, only to give them the ability to bend their viewer to their will. 3. What sort of policies would LL like to apply to viewer-side scripts and their creators? What should I have my users and content creators read, aside from the SL ToS, community standards, and 3PVP? The most ideal regulation structure for me and my users and developers would be similar to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act safe-harbour provision: As long as the development and moderation staff make a reasonable effort to mitigate content theft and content distribution in accordance with SL rules and regulations, and add in permissions-checking where necessary, the viewer itself would meet 3PVP standards and would not be banned from SL. LL would define what a "reasonable effort" is, and I would have to conform to that definition or risk losing safe-harbor status. I appreciate your consideration of this matter. As I've said, I do not wish to break too many eggs here, just give my users the ability to do what they like with their viewer while still conforming to SL's regulations and LL's wishes. Fred Rookstown FlexLife Lead Developer From lady_radsu at yahoo.com Thu Jan 14 14:17:23 2010 From: lady_radsu at yahoo.com (surangika ranathunga) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:17:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] Calculating accurate avatar positions Message-ID: <469292.43779.qm@web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I also agree that there's a problem in the case of acceleration calculation. I recorded two consecutive objectUpdate callbacks received by the viewer, and used that formula to interpolate the position values. in the case of avatar movement, this would work fine for a greater extent because there the acceleration was 0. But for objects that have an acceleration, the interpolated values look very strange. according to those position values, the object should move forward and backward, when it is supposed to move forward only. But the interesting thing is that I cannot see that object jumping forward and backward in the Second Life viewer. So the viewer might be using some kind of rectifying mechanism somewhere else to cope with these wrongly calculated values?? /Surangika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100114/2bf6d4e1/attachment.htm From jhurliman at jhurliman.org Thu Jan 14 20:02:07 2010 From: jhurliman at jhurliman.org (John Hurliman) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:02:07 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <824c8ab71001121332p2e708175h215c47985a6db565@mail.gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <920d7d851001111237s2a5fec3andc76183cc102d473@mail.gmail.com> <824c8ab71001121332p2e708175h215c47985a6db565@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I had Verse+realXtend Viewer+Blender+OpenSim working as a prototype at one point. Unfortunately the OpenSim API broke before I captured a video and haven't had time to toy with it since then. One issue to think about is that you would have to make a distinction between meshes that are "done"/"baked" and meshes that are currently being edited, along with tracking who is editing them. A mesh in a virtual world would generally be sent in a compressed format (my guess is LL will use JPEG2000 for this, ala http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4140920). The verse protocol represents mesh data with subdivision surfaces instead of vertices, meaning Verse-enabled meshes would be stored and transmitted in a different format. It's all possible, but requires a non-trivial amount of work. Ping me if you start working on this. I have a semi-functional C# Verse client implementation, and the published docs for Verse range from slightly misleading to blatantly wrong in places. John On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: > Verse might not be such an idea. One of the major use-cases of verse was > that it would allow high-end tools to communicate effectively realtime. Say > you have an artists working in Adobe Photoshop on a texture which are on > finished parts of a mesh while your editting that mesh adding new geometry > in 3Dsmax and an animator was using Maya to use that mesh as part of a small > movie scene. > > What if we throw SL into this mix and allowed realtime updates at least for > the content creator or even better a team of them or anyone else connected > with the verse server while a bunch of friends in-world that are also > connected to the verse server prod the mesh around and brainstorm ideas and > feedback while it is being made? > > That sounds like the most awesome thing ever. And you know, if you have > that going you might get a good chance for official support, if not, its > still a highly effective form for content creation. > > [/ramblings][/scribbles] > > - Nexii > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Zha Ewry wrote: > >> I think the reason you see so much pushback on the idea of a full mesh >> editor inside the second life client is the sheer complexity of such >> tools. Building a set of complete mesh editing tools which shared >> frequent updates via the region would be a serious challenge. That >> said,I think that there are a number of basic operations one would >> want to be able to do to Meshed objects. Simple resizes are the >> obvious ones. I'd say texturing, but in general, mesh faces are harder >> to discretely texture. It will be very interesting to see if people >> have good answers to that. >> >> At the same time, there is huge power in building things in world out >> of small composable building blocks. I'm hopeful that Meshes in Second >> Life will end up being used more for components, and less for complete >> large chunks. I'm thinking trees, castle walls, Chairs, and such, and >> less complete buildings, landscapes and so on. This is even more >> cogent, when it comes to managing large amounts of hosted content. The >> bigger the mesh chunks, the more one simply has to wait for the whole >> mesh to arrive and be added to the client's scenegraph model before >> you can render it. This also hints at some interesting issues for >> various loads. Prims as load markers has been a somewhat broken model >> for a while. All prims are not equally expensive to render, nor do >> they take up the same simulator resources. One hopes that meshes >> arrive with some thought about how to manage the resources they >> consume. It would be really painful if the model encouraged large, >> bulky meshes, just to game the measurement system. >> >> ~ Zha >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mary Blackwell >> wrote: >> > I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about >> > porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way. Of course I don't >> > mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official >> > connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL. >> > >> > Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be >> instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City >> of VIllains. >> > >> > Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad >> idea. >> > >> > >> > Just >> > my hobbyhorse. If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable >> > this will happen. Might as well be the ones who get rich off it. >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ---- >> > From: Lawson English >> > To: "Frisby, Adam" >> > Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" >> > Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM >> > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? >> > >> > Frisby, Adam wrote: >> >> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. >> >> >> >> If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much >> better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe >> Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. >> Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - >> but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. >> >> >> > >> > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to >> > the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively >> > high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" >> > tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools >> > to make things look "right." >> > >> > The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its >> > main attractions makes it even more important. >> > >> > >> > Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the >> > option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part >> > of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm >> > pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. >> > >> > >> > Lawson >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100114/ab8a732b/attachment.htm From foxsanyosuke at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 01:22:26 2010 From: foxsanyosuke at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?FoxSan_Yosuk=E9?=) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:22:26 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <920d7d851001111237s2a5fec3andc76183cc102d473@mail.gmail.com> <824c8ab71001121332p2e708175h215c47985a6db565@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A RealXtend+OpenSim+SketchUp+Ogre Meshes can be found here. Every house you see here is about 6 prims and every 6 trees is one prim. Hooray for meshes. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWfnNqf7x0s Textures are not baked unfortunately, but applied manually in the REX texture tab. If anyone can explain in plain English (or Dutch) how this works, I'd be him/her forever thankful. ^^ With kind regards, Peter PS. do not hesitate if you have questions regarding to meshes. Since it -is- the future I'm happy to help out. 2010/1/15 John Hurliman > I had Verse+realXtend Viewer+Blender+OpenSim working as a prototype at one > point. Unfortunately the OpenSim API broke before I captured a video and > haven't had time to toy with it since then. One issue to think about is that > you would have to make a distinction between meshes that are "done"/"baked" > and meshes that are currently being edited, along with tracking who is > editing them. A mesh in a virtual world would generally be sent in a > compressed format (my guess is LL will use JPEG2000 for this, ala > http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4140920). The > verse protocol represents mesh data with subdivision surfaces instead of > vertices, meaning Verse-enabled meshes would be stored and transmitted in a > different format. > > It's all possible, but requires a non-trivial amount of work. Ping me if > you start working on this. I have a semi-functional C# Verse client > implementation, and the published docs for Verse range from slightly > misleading to blatantly wrong in places. > > John > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: > >> Verse might not be such an idea. One of the major use-cases of verse was >> that it would allow high-end tools to communicate effectively realtime. Say >> you have an artists working in Adobe Photoshop on a texture which are on >> finished parts of a mesh while your editting that mesh adding new geometry >> in 3Dsmax and an animator was using Maya to use that mesh as part of a small >> movie scene. >> >> What if we throw SL into this mix and allowed realtime updates at least >> for the content creator or even better a team of them or anyone else >> connected with the verse server while a bunch of friends in-world that are >> also connected to the verse server prod the mesh around and brainstorm ideas >> and feedback while it is being made? >> >> That sounds like the most awesome thing ever. And you know, if you have >> that going you might get a good chance for official support, if not, its >> still a highly effective form for content creation. >> >> [/ramblings][/scribbles] >> >> - Nexii >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Zha Ewry wrote: >> >>> I think the reason you see so much pushback on the idea of a full mesh >>> editor inside the second life client is the sheer complexity of such >>> tools. Building a set of complete mesh editing tools which shared >>> frequent updates via the region would be a serious challenge. That >>> said,I think that there are a number of basic operations one would >>> want to be able to do to Meshed objects. Simple resizes are the >>> obvious ones. I'd say texturing, but in general, mesh faces are harder >>> to discretely texture. It will be very interesting to see if people >>> have good answers to that. >>> >>> At the same time, there is huge power in building things in world out >>> of small composable building blocks. I'm hopeful that Meshes in Second >>> Life will end up being used more for components, and less for complete >>> large chunks. I'm thinking trees, castle walls, Chairs, and such, and >>> less complete buildings, landscapes and so on. This is even more >>> cogent, when it comes to managing large amounts of hosted content. The >>> bigger the mesh chunks, the more one simply has to wait for the whole >>> mesh to arrive and be added to the client's scenegraph model before >>> you can render it. This also hints at some interesting issues for >>> various loads. Prims as load markers has been a somewhat broken model >>> for a while. All prims are not equally expensive to render, nor do >>> they take up the same simulator resources. One hopes that meshes >>> arrive with some thought about how to manage the resources they >>> consume. It would be really painful if the model encouraged large, >>> bulky meshes, just to game the measurement system. >>> >>> ~ Zha >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mary Blackwell >>> wrote: >>> > I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about >>> > porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way. Of course I don't >>> > mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official >>> > connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL. >>> > >>> > Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be >>> instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City >>> of VIllains. >>> > >>> > Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad >>> idea. >>> > >>> > >>> > Just >>> > my hobbyhorse. If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable >>> > this will happen. Might as well be the ones who get rich off it. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ---- >>> > From: Lawson English >>> > To: "Frisby, Adam" >>> > Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" >>> > Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0? >>> > >>> > Frisby, Adam wrote: >>> >> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better. >>> >> >>> >> If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much >>> better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe >>> Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective. >>> Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it - >>> but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first. >>> >> >>> > >>> > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to >>> > the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively >>> > high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world" >>> > tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such >>> tools >>> > to make things look "right." >>> > >>> > The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its >>> > main attractions makes it even more important. >>> > >>> > >>> > Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the >>> > option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part >>> > of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm >>> > pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them. >>> > >>> > >>> > Lawson >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100115/2275a0e0/attachment-0001.htm From tigrospottystripes at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 04:12:35 2010 From: tigrospottystripes at gmail.com (Tigro Spottystripes) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:12:35 -0200 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <366039.80508.qm@web59103.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4B4A9C47.8010009@superliminal.com> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> I would like to take this cue to once again promote my proposal of an approach to CSG for SL http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13344 On 14/1/2010 02:42, Dale Mahalko wrote: > There are other important questions to ask about SL 2.0. > > ... > The idea of constructive solid geometry has been thrown around since > the very beginning, as a possible "future option" but of course > nothing ever developed from that. Will we see anything happen with CSG > or should it just be scratched out of the playbook as unlikely to ever > be done? > > ... > > - Scalar Tardis / Dale Mahalko > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100115/914a4303/attachment.htm From stickman at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 15:16:00 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:16:00 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm happy to hear the ideas about tying in external editors with Second Life. I like them a lot. Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily see what things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a case of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only displayed locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it immediately applied to the model you're working with? Bonus points for sending it serverside, even just as a "temporary" upload, so that other people can see the same thing. Even more awesome, though probably too bandwidth expensive, is updating the texture in realtime as you create it. Something like that would probably requiring LL to pick a specific application to support, while grabbing a file when it changes is compatible with any image editor. And why can't the same thing be done for 3D editors? I know every action in Maya has an equivalent script command and gets logged to the script output window. SL could just feed off that and show the model in realtime in SL. And why can't someone else be granted "modify" rights on this, and have it pop up in their Maya so they can edit it, too? Sure, it might need to be "locked" for one person or another, but that kind of cooperative build environment would be extremely useful for anything, be it educational or professional. Or, sculpties/future meshes could just read off a saved/exported file, like the original texture idea, which would make it compatible with everything. I've been trying to get some animations to work for over a year. Zwagoth was kind enough to make a "skeleton exporter" for me, so I can work with a skeleton in Blender that's pretty much exactly what it looks like in SL. And now that I've animated and I'm uploading, the animation isn't showing up as I created it. Apparently the bvh -> animation conversion is changing my animation too much. I know this because exporting every frame of the animation separately, uploading them, and playing them sequentially with a script actually results in the proper animation. I'm trying to find a simple reproduction of this asynchrony, but any animation simple enough doesn't show the same symptoms. My argument is thus: SL needs an easy, working pipeline. Right now. Textures and sculpties are difficult to work with, as you need to continuously upload them and make corrections. Animations have the same problem, and simply don't work as they should in other areas (repeated first frame, the above, etc.) Whether that pipeline is choosing a specific, chosen application as "the one" that SL will support, or stamping out the perfect format and process for each asset type, I don't really care. As long as there is one way that works quickly and easily, people will find ways to adapt that process to their chosen method to get the same results. Wait, this thread is about SL 2.0's features and how we don't know what they are? I seem to be off topic. Stickman From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Fri Jan 15 16:20:17 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:20:17 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> Stickman wrote: > Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily see what > things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture > involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, > checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a case > of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only displayed > locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it > immediately applied to the model you're working with? I can see where that would be quite useful, and I'm guessing it would be fairly easy to implement. I looked on JIRA and the only thing close I saw was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the prims rather than uploading texture from photoshop or another similar program" which is much harder. You should consider putting it out there and getting some votes for it. Mike From stickman at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 17:40:31 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:40:31 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: > fairly easy to implement. ?I looked on JIRA and the only thing close I saw > was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the prims http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 Looks like someone beat me to it by a couple months. I've modified it a little, since the comments don't seem to notice it's more than just temporary assets, but a request to auto-update temporary assets. From lenglish5 at cox.net Fri Jan 15 20:43:54 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:43:54 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <4B51440A.1010500@cox.net> Mike Monkowski wrote: > Stickman wrote: > >> Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily see what >> things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture >> involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, >> checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a case >> of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only displayed >> locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it >> immediately applied to the model you're working with? >> > > I can see where that would be quite useful, and I'm guessing it would be > fairly easy to implement. I looked on JIRA and the only thing close I > saw was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the > prims rather than uploading texture from photoshop or another similar > program" which is much harder. You should consider putting it out there > and getting some votes for it. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > The simplest in-world 3D tool would be taking my once and future SL <=> squeak plugin and applying it as a live VNC on a prim service ala Aimee's Recursive Life demo. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Media_Rendering_Plugin -I say simplest because Squeak VNC is pretty much built into the system by simply redirecting standard Smalltalk drawing to a pointer to an offscreen buffer and because there is already a simple-to-use sculpty maker in Squeak: http://www.planet-plopp.com/ & http://www.secondplopp.com/ The process would involve redirecting SL PLOPP to a SL VNC session and mirroring the image changes to a streaming server, with or without interaction/participation from the wider audience. Without the streaming server, it would be simply a private VNC on a prim session, which would look cute, but wouldn't be collaborative or all that immersive. More elaborate tools would leverage the viewer's 3D rendering engine and control widgets ala the puppeteering code. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Puppeteering_Plugin All sorts of hybrid architectures could be developed, depending on how the viewer handles locally provided packets and how it exposes various kinds of internal events/ stages of the rendering pipeline. An even simpler model would be to leverage a localhost server interfacing with a gridproxy, so that packets could be injected into the client via the loopback connection, while a GUI could be provided via the built-in browser, or html on a prim (localhost or uploaded to a public server or whatever). The Seaside webserver, written in Pharo Squeak-Smalltalk, is the easiest way to get that kind of thing working. It works pretty much out of the box for this kind of thing. I've written extremely simple (barely proof of concept) prim manipulation tools on a localhost webpage that send commands via http-in to a prim. A publicly hosted Seaside server can provide that facility for collaboration. Any kind of webserver can do this, of course. Seaside is simply a nice turnkey solution that installs with one-click on localhost and provides an OOP interface for the GUI and control messages. Being required to learn /use smalltalk is the only drawback to this solution. Lawson From dahliatrimble at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 23:47:59 2010 From: dahliatrimble at gmail.com (Dahlia Trimble) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:47:59 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B51440A.1010500@cox.net> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B51440A.1010500@cox.net> Message-ID: or if you had vnc on a prim you could put it on a texture face you are working on, then full screen an image in photoshop and paint on it and the changes should appear on the prim in real time -d On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Mike Monkowski wrote: > > Stickman wrote: > > > >> Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily see what > >> things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture > >> involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, > >> checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a case > >> of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only displayed > >> locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it > >> immediately applied to the model you're working with? > >> > > > > I can see where that would be quite useful, and I'm guessing it would be > > fairly easy to implement. I looked on JIRA and the only thing close I > > saw was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the > > prims rather than uploading texture from photoshop or another similar > > program" which is much harder. You should consider putting it out there > > and getting some votes for it. > > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > > > The simplest in-world 3D tool would be taking my once and future SL <=> > squeak plugin and applying it as a live VNC on a prim service ala > Aimee's Recursive Life demo. > > https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Media_Rendering_Plugin > -I say simplest because Squeak VNC is pretty much built into the system > by simply redirecting standard Smalltalk drawing to a pointer to an > offscreen buffer and because there is already a simple-to-use sculpty > maker in Squeak: http://www.planet-plopp.com/ & > http://www.secondplopp.com/ > > The process would involve redirecting SL PLOPP to a SL VNC session and > mirroring the image changes to a streaming server, with or without > interaction/participation from the wider audience. Without the streaming > server, it would be simply a private VNC on a prim session, which would > look cute, but wouldn't be collaborative or all that immersive. > > > More elaborate tools would leverage the viewer's 3D rendering engine > and control widgets ala the puppeteering code. > > https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Puppeteering_Plugin > > All sorts of hybrid architectures could be developed, depending on how > the viewer handles locally provided packets and how it exposes various > kinds of internal events/ stages of the rendering pipeline. > > An even simpler model would be to leverage a localhost server > interfacing with a gridproxy, so that packets could be injected into the > client via the loopback connection, while a GUI could be provided via > the built-in browser, or html on a prim (localhost or uploaded to a > public server or whatever). > > The Seaside webserver, written in Pharo Squeak-Smalltalk, is the easiest > way to get that kind of thing working. It works pretty much out of the > box for this kind of thing. I've written extremely simple (barely proof > of concept) prim manipulation tools on a localhost webpage that send > commands via http-in to a prim. A publicly hosted Seaside server can > provide that facility for collaboration. Any kind of webserver can do > this, of course. Seaside is simply a nice turnkey solution that installs > with one-click on localhost and provides an OOP interface for the GUI > and control messages. Being required to learn /use smalltalk is the only > drawback to this solution. > > Lawson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100115/7170240d/attachment.htm From lenglish5 at cox.net Sat Jan 16 02:04:02 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:04:02 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B51440A.1010500@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B518F12.7020003@cox.net> Dahlia Trimble wrote: > or if you had vnc on a prim you could put it on a texture face you are > working on, then full screen an image in photoshop and paint on it and > the changes should appear on the prim in real time > Sure, any VNC ssetup will allow that. Nice thing about SLPlopp is that, minimalist as it is, the sculpty design and UV painting code is merged into the same paint program so you can draw the outline of the sculpty and paint the texture on it using the same tools at the same time. Then you could puff up the drawing to make it a sculpty texture and upload it from localhost for 3D preview before committing it to the server. You could simply paint the 3D version on the prim for everyone else to see before upload too. Much flexibility is possible for the design. I can see a time when TeaTime becomes part of SL directly, so that object state can be shared in myriad ways, not just as 3D drawing data, and you could have different combinations of world objects sharing different sets of state, messaging, etc., in a soup of a cloud of client-server-objects where the current distinctions between Client-server and P2P no longer really exist. > -d > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Lawson English > wrote: > > Mike Monkowski wrote: > > Stickman wrote: > > > >> Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily > see what > >> things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture > >> involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, > >> checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a > case > >> of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only > displayed > >> locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it > >> immediately applied to the model you're working with? > >> > > > > I can see where that would be quite useful, and I'm guessing it > would be > > fairly easy to implement. I looked on JIRA and the only thing > close I > > saw was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the > > prims rather than uploading texture from photoshop or another > similar > > program" which is much harder. You should consider putting it > out there > > and getting some votes for it. > > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > > > The simplest in-world 3D tool would be taking my once and future > SL <=> > squeak plugin and applying it as a live VNC on a prim service ala > Aimee's Recursive Life demo. > https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Media_Rendering_Plugin > -I say simplest because Squeak VNC is pretty much built into the > system > by simply redirecting standard Smalltalk drawing to a pointer to an > offscreen buffer and because there is already a simple-to-use sculpty > maker in Squeak: http://www.planet-plopp.com/ & > http://www.secondplopp.com/ > > The process would involve redirecting SL PLOPP to a SL VNC > session and > mirroring the image changes to a streaming server, with or without > interaction/participation from the wider audience. Without the > streaming > server, it would be simply a private VNC on a prim session, which > would > look cute, but wouldn't be collaborative or all that immersive. > > > More elaborate tools would leverage the viewer's 3D rendering engine > and control widgets ala the puppeteering code. > https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Puppeteering_Plugin > > All sorts of hybrid architectures could be developed, depending on how > the viewer handles locally provided packets and how it exposes various > kinds of internal events/ stages of the rendering pipeline. > > An even simpler model would be to leverage a localhost server > interfacing with a gridproxy, so that packets could be injected > into the > client via the loopback connection, while a GUI could be provided via > the built-in browser, or html on a prim (localhost or uploaded to a > public server or whatever). > > The Seaside webserver, written in Pharo Squeak-Smalltalk, is the > easiest > way to get that kind of thing working. It works pretty much out of the > box for this kind of thing. I've written extremely simple (barely > proof > of concept) prim manipulation tools on a localhost webpage that send > commands via http-in to a prim. A publicly hosted Seaside server can > provide that facility for collaboration. Any kind of webserver can do > this, of course. Seaside is simply a nice turnkey solution that > installs > with one-click on localhost and provides an OOP interface for the GUI > and control messages. Being required to learn /use smalltalk is > the only > drawback to this solution. > > Lawson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated > posting privileges > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From stickman at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 09:46:28 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:46:28 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B518F12.7020003@cox.net> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B51440A.1010500@cox.net> <4B518F12.7020003@cox.net> Message-ID: All this talk of VNC sounds like saying I can get in my VW Bug and fly to Hawaii. I'm assuming VNC works differently than what I've seen. I was under the impression that it opens up a server and lets people connect and see (and optionally control) your desktop. Now I'm hearing it can show only a specific part of your desktop, and ...that it can show windows that are in the background? I understand with the media plugin the VNC viewer can be a face on a prim. I'm not understanding how I could use that face on the prim to do what people are suggesting. Not without more than one computer. And if the second computer isn't capable of running SL or Photoshop, then I've got a horrible mess on my hands to get it working. And I have no idea how to use this for "in-progress sculpties." It's nice to know options like this exist to get the result I want, but I unfortunately have enough time to fiddle with it. And if I needed multiple texture or sculpties at once? Yeah. Thanks for making me aware of the options, at least! Stickman On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Lawson English wrote: > Dahlia Trimble wrote: >> or if you had vnc on a prim you could put it on a texture face you are >> working on, then full screen an image in photoshop and paint on it and >> the changes should appear on the prim in real time >> > > Sure, any VNC ssetup will allow that. Nice thing about SLPlopp is that, > minimalist as it is, the sculpty design and UV painting code is merged > into the same paint program so you can draw the outline of the sculpty > and paint the texture on it using the same tools at the same time. Then > you could puff up the drawing to make it a sculpty texture and upload it > from localhost for 3D preview before committing it to the server. You > could simply paint the 3D version on the prim for everyone else to see > before upload too. > > Much flexibility is possible for the design. I can see a time when > TeaTime becomes part of SL directly, so that object state can be shared > in myriad ways, not just as 3D drawing data, and you could have > different combinations of world objects sharing different sets of state, > messaging, etc., in a soup of a cloud of client-server-objects where the > current distinctions between Client-server and P2P no longer really exist. > > > > > > > >> -d >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Lawson English > > wrote: >> >> ? ? Mike Monkowski wrote: >> ? ? > Stickman wrote: >> ? ? > >> ? ? >> Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily >> ? ? see what >> ? ? >> things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture >> ? ? >> involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, >> ? ? >> checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a >> ? ? case >> ? ? >> of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only >> ? ? displayed >> ? ? >> locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it >> ? ? >> immediately applied to the model you're working with? >> ? ? >> >> ? ? > >> ? ? > I can see where that would be quite useful, and I'm guessing it >> ? ? would be >> ? ? > fairly easy to implement. ?I looked on JIRA and the only thing >> ? ? close I >> ? ? > saw was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the >> ? ? > prims rather than uploading texture from photoshop or another >> ? ? similar >> ? ? > program" which is much harder. ?You should consider putting it >> ? ? out there >> ? ? > and getting some votes for it. >> ? ? > >> ? ? > Mike >> ? ? > _______________________________________________ >> ? ? > >> >> ? ? The simplest in-world 3D tool would be taking my once and future >> ? ? SL <=> >> ? ? squeak plugin and applying it as a live VNC on a prim service ala >> ? ? Aimee's Recursive Life demo. >> ? ? https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Media_Rendering_Plugin >> ? ? -I say simplest because Squeak VNC is pretty much built into the >> ? ? system >> ? ? by simply redirecting standard Smalltalk drawing to a pointer to an >> ? ? offscreen buffer ?and because there is already a simple-to-use sculpty >> ? ? maker in Squeak: http://www.planet-plopp.com/ ? & >> ? ? http://www.secondplopp.com/ >> >> ? ? ?The process would involve redirecting SL PLOPP to a SL VNC >> ? ? session and >> ? ? mirroring the image changes to ?a streaming server, with or without >> ? ? interaction/participation from the wider audience. Without the >> ? ? streaming >> ? ? server, it would be simply a private VNC on a prim session, which >> ? ? would >> ? ? look cute, but wouldn't be collaborative or all that immersive. >> >> >> ? ? More elaborate tools would leverage the viewer's 3D rendering engine >> ? ? and ?control widgets ala the puppeteering code. >> ? ? https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Puppeteering_Plugin >> >> ? ? All sorts of hybrid architectures could be developed, depending on how >> ? ? the viewer handles locally provided packets and how it exposes various >> ? ? kinds of internal events/ stages of the rendering pipeline. >> >> ? ? An even simpler model would be to leverage a localhost server >> ? ? interfacing with a gridproxy, so that packets could be injected >> ? ? into the >> ? ? client via the loopback connection, while a GUI could be provided via >> ? ? the built-in browser, or html on a prim (localhost or uploaded to a >> ? ? public server or whatever). >> >> ? ? The Seaside webserver, written in Pharo Squeak-Smalltalk, is the >> ? ? easiest >> ? ? way to get that kind of thing working. It works pretty much out of the >> ? ? box for this kind of thing. I've written extremely simple (barely >> ? ? proof >> ? ? of concept) prim manipulation tools on a localhost webpage that send >> ? ? commands via http-in to a prim. A publicly hosted Seaside server can >> ? ? provide that facility for collaboration. Any kind of webserver can do >> ? ? this, of course. Seaside is simply a nice turnkey solution that >> ? ? installs >> ? ? with one-click on localhost and provides an OOP interface for the GUI >> ? ? and control messages. Being required to learn /use smalltalk is >> ? ? the only >> ? ? drawback to this solution. >> >> ? ? Lawson >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ? ? _______________________________________________ >> ? ? Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> ? ? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> ? ? Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated >> ? ? posting privileges >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From lenglish5 at cox.net Sat Jan 16 11:59:59 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:59:59 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B51440A.1010500@cox.net> <4B518F12.7020003@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B521ABF.3070809@cox.net> VNC can have lots of options, depending on how its implemented. Aimee's demo shows a full Mac OS X desktop on a prim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtHO4AtVSwc There are also variations that only show one active window. The way squeak VNC works, it shows the entire squeak "desktop" but it should be possible to only show one window. For lectures in SL, it should be possible to also stream the window to a quicktime streaming server so the audience can watch and not control your desktop. But all this is speculation so far, as far as SL is concerned, Aimee hasn't released her VNC plugin and I'm hardly 10% of hte way towards a squeak equivalent. Lawson Stickman wrote: > All this talk of VNC sounds like saying I can get in my VW Bug and fly > to Hawaii. > > I'm assuming VNC works differently than what I've seen. I was under > the impression that it opens up a server and lets people connect and > see (and optionally control) your desktop. Now I'm hearing it can show > only a specific part of your desktop, and ...that it can show windows > that are in the background? > > I understand with the media plugin the VNC viewer can be a face on a > prim. I'm not understanding how I could use that face on the prim to > do what people are suggesting. Not without more than one computer. And > if the second computer isn't capable of running SL or Photoshop, then > I've got a horrible mess on my hands to get it working. > > And I have no idea how to use this for "in-progress sculpties." > > It's nice to know options like this exist to get the result I want, > but I unfortunately have enough time to fiddle with it. And if I > needed multiple texture or sculpties at once? Yeah. > > Thanks for making me aware of the options, at least! > > Stickman > > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Lawson English wrote: > >> Dahlia Trimble wrote: >> >>> or if you had vnc on a prim you could put it on a texture face you are >>> working on, then full screen an image in photoshop and paint on it and >>> the changes should appear on the prim in real time >>> >>> >> Sure, any VNC ssetup will allow that. Nice thing about SLPlopp is that, >> minimalist as it is, the sculpty design and UV painting code is merged >> into the same paint program so you can draw the outline of the sculpty >> and paint the texture on it using the same tools at the same time. Then >> you could puff up the drawing to make it a sculpty texture and upload it >> from localhost for 3D preview before committing it to the server. You >> could simply paint the 3D version on the prim for everyone else to see >> before upload too. >> >> Much flexibility is possible for the design. I can see a time when >> TeaTime becomes part of SL directly, so that object state can be shared >> in myriad ways, not just as 3D drawing data, and you could have >> different combinations of world objects sharing different sets of state, >> messaging, etc., in a soup of a cloud of client-server-objects where the >> current distinctions between Client-server and P2P no longer really exist. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> -d >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Lawson English >> > wrote: >>> >>> Mike Monkowski wrote: >>> > Stickman wrote: >>> > >>> >> Second Life suffers from not being able to quickly and easily >>> see what >>> >> things will look like when placed inworld. Perfecting a texture >>> >> involves editing the texture, saving it, uploading it, applying it, >>> >> checking it, then going back to editing. Why can't it just be a >>> case >>> >> of "tying" a local texture file to SL, and even if it's only >>> displayed >>> >> locally, and then just clicking Ctrl-S to save and having it >>> >> immediately applied to the model you're working with? >>> >> >>> > >>> > I can see where that would be quite useful, and I'm guessing it >>> would be >>> > fairly easy to implement. I looked on JIRA and the only thing >>> close I >>> > saw was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the >>> > prims rather than uploading texture from photoshop or another >>> similar >>> > program" which is much harder. You should consider putting it >>> out there >>> > and getting some votes for it. >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> >>> The simplest in-world 3D tool would be taking my once and future >>> SL <=> >>> squeak plugin and applying it as a live VNC on a prim service ala >>> Aimee's Recursive Life demo. >>> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Media_Rendering_Plugin >>> -I say simplest because Squeak VNC is pretty much built into the >>> system >>> by simply redirecting standard Smalltalk drawing to a pointer to an >>> offscreen buffer and because there is already a simple-to-use sculpty >>> maker in Squeak: http://www.planet-plopp.com/ & >>> http://www.secondplopp.com/ >>> >>> The process would involve redirecting SL PLOPP to a SL VNC >>> session and >>> mirroring the image changes to a streaming server, with or without >>> interaction/participation from the wider audience. Without the >>> streaming >>> server, it would be simply a private VNC on a prim session, which >>> would >>> look cute, but wouldn't be collaborative or all that immersive. >>> >>> >>> More elaborate tools would leverage the viewer's 3D rendering engine >>> and control widgets ala the puppeteering code. >>> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion#Puppeteering_Plugin >>> >>> All sorts of hybrid architectures could be developed, depending on how >>> the viewer handles locally provided packets and how it exposes various >>> kinds of internal events/ stages of the rendering pipeline. >>> >>> An even simpler model would be to leverage a localhost server >>> interfacing with a gridproxy, so that packets could be injected >>> into the >>> client via the loopback connection, while a GUI could be provided via >>> the built-in browser, or html on a prim (localhost or uploaded to a >>> public server or whatever). >>> >>> The Seaside webserver, written in Pharo Squeak-Smalltalk, is the >>> easiest >>> way to get that kind of thing working. It works pretty much out of the >>> box for this kind of thing. I've written extremely simple (barely >>> proof >>> of concept) prim manipulation tools on a localhost webpage that send >>> commands via http-in to a prim. A publicly hosted Seaside server can >>> provide that facility for collaboration. Any kind of webserver can do >>> this, of course. Seaside is simply a nice turnkey solution that >>> installs >>> with one-click on localhost and provides an OOP interface for the GUI >>> and control messages. Being required to learn /use smalltalk is >>> the only >>> drawback to this solution. >>> >>> Lawson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated >>> posting privileges >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > From elio at magetech.com Sun Jan 17 07:52:39 2010 From: elio at magetech.com (Elio Maggini) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:52:39 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Please vote for SVC-4937 Message-ID: <002f01ca978d$1927ebb0$4b77c310$@com> This issue prevents notecards from being saved in object with no trans is set. Perhaps with enough votes it will be addressed. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4937 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100117/4bdf5f43/attachment.htm From carlo at alinoe.com Sun Jan 17 10:01:52 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:01:52 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Please vote for SVC-4937 In-Reply-To: <002f01ca978d$1927ebb0$4b77c310$@com> References: <002f01ca978d$1927ebb0$4b77c310$@com> Message-ID: <20100117180152.GA23360@alinoe.com> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:52:39AM -0500, Elio Maggini wrote: > This issue prevents notecards from being saved in object with no trans is set. > > Perhaps with enough votes it will be addressed. > > http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4937 My God, that was reported in October?? It's the kind of bug that I'd have stayed up for in the weekend to try and fix it within a day, if I worked for LL. -- Carlo Wood From aleric.inglewood at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 18:55:33 2010 From: aleric.inglewood at gmail.com (Aleric Inglewood) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:55:33 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Request to remove code regarding "locking" of display Message-ID: <1e01733d1001171855p2a0d35c8o7dc036a4d815c284@mail.gmail.com> See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-445 please add comments there. From kf6kjg at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 21:49:41 2010 From: kf6kjg at gmail.com (Ricky) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:49:41 -0800 Subject: [sldev] SNOW-446 Avatar "Sit Here" weirdness Message-ID: <3bb9647e1001172149r534af04eq74787ff715e3aff0@mail.gmail.com> Just played with the new "sit here" pie menu and found a small hole in the logic. JIRA'd as http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-446 Seems that sitting while falling/jumping causes a strange result! :P Very fun when you are at 3km... Ricky SL: Cron Stardust -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100117/50dfe988/attachment.htm From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Mon Jan 18 07:48:51 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:48:51 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> Stickman wrote: >>fairly easy to implement. I looked on JIRA and the only thing close I saw >>was VWR-14492 "Being able to paint and texture directly onto the prims > > > http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 > > Looks like someone beat me to it by a couple months. > > I've modified it a little, since the comments don't seem to notice > it's more than just temporary assets, but a request to auto-update > temporary assets. That JIRA describes quite another thing. Although it gets around the upload charge, it still requires an upload. It is still done on the servers. All of the rendering is done in the client, though, not the servers. Textures are downloaded from the server, placed in a buffer, and referenced by OpenGL. It should not be necessary to upload and download if the goal is just to have it local. It should be possible to load from a local texture directly into the buffer and allow for a button that says "Refresh" that reloads the buffer with the current content of the texture as it is being edited in Photoshop or other image editor. The goal is to make editing simpler and faster, not just cheaper. Mike From q at lindenlab.com Mon Jan 18 08:53:42 2010 From: q at lindenlab.com (Kent Quirk (Q Linden)) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:53:42 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Please vote for SVC-4937 In-Reply-To: <20100117180152.GA23360@alinoe.com> References: <002f01ca978d$1927ebb0$4b77c310$@com> <20100117180152.GA23360@alinoe.com> Message-ID: On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:01 PM, Carlo Wood wrote: > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:52:39AM -0500, Elio Maggini wrote: >> This issue prevents notecards from being saved in object with no trans is set. >> >> Perhaps with enough votes it will be addressed. >> >> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4937 > > My God, that was reported in October?? > It's the kind of bug that I'd have stayed up for in > the weekend to try and fix it within a day, if I worked > for LL. > Weekend fixes have an annoying tendency to come back and bite us, which is why we have a policy not to do deploys of code on weekends except in special cases. In addition, the permissions system is big, deep, and fragile, with high potential for unforeseen consequences. From the description, I'm guessing that this bug is related to a security fix we did during the fall that required the focused time of several of our best engineers. Despite that level of attention, we missed it anyway. This bug has been triaged internally and is in the work queue. I expect it will get a similar level of focus when it rises to the top of the queue. Voting for it can sometimes help push it to the top of the queue faster, but voting is not the only factor we take into account. Q From mrfrans at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 09:30:15 2010 From: mrfrans at gmail.com (Frans) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:30:15 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <7765f2c61001180930x379f79bflf3a90a6c1130ba22@mail.gmail.com> > > NO. > > I don't know how the mesh rumor got started, but it's already been stated > in this thread that 2.0 will NOT include mesh support. All the questions are > interesting, but they don't apply yet. > > This video might have something to do with it. ;) Second Life Tech Demo - Model Import and Global Illumination http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swh6gY_dEH0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100118/f104e04e/attachment.htm From moriz.gupte at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 09:46:47 2010 From: moriz.gupte at gmail.com (Moriz Gupte) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:46:47 -0700 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <7765f2c61001180930x379f79bflf3a90a6c1130ba22@mail.gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> <7765f2c61001180930x379f79bflf3a90a6c1130ba22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing, but I don't watch 'rumors'...even though I got myself caught into the 'rumor' at the last SLCC *wink* R On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Frans wrote: > NO. >> >> I don't know how the mesh rumor got started, but it's already been stated >> in this thread that 2.0 will NOT include mesh support. All the questions are >> interesting, but they don't apply yet. >> >> > This video might have something to do with it. ;) > Second Life Tech Demo - Model Import and Global Illumination > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swh6gY_dEH0 > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -- 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.' Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD Research Assistant Professor Idaho State University, PocatelloTel: 208-282-5333 More info at http://tr.im/RRamloll -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100118/09ea4060/attachment.htm From carlo at alinoe.com Mon Jan 18 17:07:49 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 02:07:49 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <7765f2c61001180930x379f79bflf3a90a6c1130ba22@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B4ABF71.4060307@cox.net> <4B4AC86E.4080900@superliminal.com> <63FAD4F222230A4EA79DE9E8BE6647354DE51F47@winxbeus19.exchange.xchg> <4B4B4C2D.5040608@cox.net> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <491327C8-D7F3-4D90-9B42-FB6F0946095E@lindenlab.com> <7765f2c61001180930x379f79bflf3a90a6c1130ba22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100119010749.GA743@alinoe.com> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 06:30:15PM +0100, Frans wrote: > NO. > > I don't know how the mesh rumor got started, but it's already been stated > in this thread that 2.0 will NOT include mesh support. All the questions > are interesting, but they don't apply yet. > > This video might have something to do with it. ;) > Second Life Tech Demo - Model Import and Global Illumination > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swh6gY_dEH0 The reason is simply that if not it being the year 2010, then certainly the version bump to 2.0 makes it almost trivial to expect mesh support. Since apparently 2.0 is mergable with snowglobe by one man, and since it doesn't contain mesh support, it's more of an PR thing. It should have been called 1.24. -- Carlo Wood From stickman at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 17:56:01 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 17:56:01 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <43766.89516.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: >> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 > That JIRA describes quite another thing. ?Although it gets around the upload > charge, it still requires an upload. ?It is still done on the servers. You make a very good point. Local files would be much faster. That's a good advantage to local files. Server files would let other people see the changes, which is a different advantage. Your goal you state is exactly my goal. Make editing simpler and faster. But in his Jira it says: "If it points to a local file, that cuts out the upload time AND the download time..." He points out the existence of "temporary uploads" as existing in other clients, then expands on the idea in the same way I did. Like me, he doesn't care if it uses local files or these temporary uploads, he just wants textures to auto-update while you're building. That's the whole point: Auto-updating temporary assets (server or local, who cares) so you can see your work in progress. If they were done serverside, I'd handle the "lag" or wait of a round trip and love the fact other people could watch. If they were done clientside, I'd love the speed of change and deal with the fact other people couldn't see me work. I just want the tool. -Stickman From poppy at lindenlab.com Mon Jan 18 19:04:51 2010 From: poppy at lindenlab.com (Paul Oppenheim (Poppy Linden)) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:04:51 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Viewer-side scripting and 3rd-Party Viewer Policy? In-Reply-To: <1263502441.8786.41.camel@RAGE> References: <1263502441.8786.41.camel@RAGE> Message-ID: <4B552153.6070106@lindenlab.com> I don't think you're ever going to hear something dissimilar to this from a Linden on sldev regarding legal issues: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2007-April/001528.html + poppy Rob Nelson wrote: > Hello sldev. > > I realize that I've asked this in IRC already, but the only answer I got > was from a non-Linden and I want to hear it from the horse's mouth > before continuing on my current path of feature additions. > > I'm working on a viewer that will be adding viewer-side embedded > scripting (Lua, if anyone is curious, see http://lua.org) in order to > allow content creators to extend the abilities of the content they > create. However, during development, a beta tester brought up a few > potential issues with the ToS and 3rd Party Viewer Policy (henceforth > known as the 3PVP). > > The Lua implementation I'm adding is highly event-driven, so whenever, > for example, a sound is played in the sim, the following event is > triggered with the corresponding arguments: > > OnAttachedSound (object_id,audio_uuid,owner_id,gain,flags) > > Notice that the UUID of the sound is passed to the Lua script hooking > into the event. This is so I can, for example, produce an automatic > mute function by checking the UUID of the sound being played against a > list of known-bad sound UUIDs. > > if isInTable(gAutoMuteSounds,audio_uuid) then > muteAvatar(owner_id) > > However, it doesn't take any stretch of the mind to see how a user could > abuse this system by simply printing or logging the sound UUIDs. > Similar issues exist with particles and object textures. > > What I would like to know from any LL employee willing to answer is: > > 1. If I provide a reasonable level of permissions checking and > anti-content theft functions, and discourage such ToS/3PVP-breakage (and > moderate user-posted scripts in accordance with such policies), will the > viewer I am working on still violate the 3PVP/ToS for simply making > those UUIDs available to user scripts? > > 2. What minimum restrictions must I apply to comply with LL policies? > Keep in mind that I cannot check Attached Soundsystems since the > permissions to that sound are not made available. There will also be no > llGiveMoney-type function, nor will the messaging system be made > available to allow a workaround. Login-related events will not be made > in order to prevent password theft. Alienating or exposing users is not > my intent, only to give them the ability to bend their viewer to their > will. > > 3. What sort of policies would LL like to apply to viewer-side scripts > and their creators? What should I have my users and content creators > read, aside from the SL ToS, community standards, and 3PVP? > > The most ideal regulation structure for me and my users and developers > would be similar to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act safe-harbour > provision: As long as the development and moderation staff make a > reasonable effort to mitigate content theft and content distribution in > accordance with SL rules and regulations, and add in > permissions-checking where necessary, the viewer itself would meet 3PVP > standards and would not be banned from SL. LL would define what a > "reasonable effort" is, and I would have to conform to that definition > or risk losing safe-harbor status. > > I appreciate your consideration of this matter. As I've said, I do not > wish to break too many eggs here, just give my users the ability to do > what they like with their viewer while still conforming to SL's > regulations and LL's wishes. > > Fred Rookstown > FlexLife Lead Developer > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From nexiim at googlemail.com Tue Jan 19 00:21:24 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:21:24 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001190021w10b2440clb83a303cd79e7a2b@mail.gmail.com> Fully agree to Stickman here. Seems like it might be a fairly small challenge to implement, skipping the upload pipeline and a mechanism to keep/refresh the asset locally. It doesn't have to be fantastically complicated, the feature would serve a single purpose. It ought to be able to handle multiple local textures though, not just a single one, just because it could. - Nexii On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Stickman wrote: >>> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 > >> That JIRA describes quite another thing. ?Although it gets around the upload >> charge, it still requires an upload. ?It is still done on the servers. > > You make a very good point. Local files would be much faster. That's a > good advantage to local files. Server files would let other people see > the changes, which is a different advantage. > > Your goal you state is exactly my goal. Make editing simpler and faster. > > But in his Jira it says: > "If it points to a local file, that cuts out the upload time AND the > download time..." > > He points out the existence of "temporary uploads" as existing in > other clients, then expands on the idea in the same way I did. Like > me, he doesn't care if it uses local files or these temporary uploads, > he just wants textures to auto-update while you're building. > > That's the whole point: Auto-updating temporary assets (server or > local, who cares) so you can see your work in progress. > > If they were done serverside, I'd handle the "lag" or wait of a round > trip and love the fact other people could watch. If they were done > clientside, I'd love the speed of change and deal with the fact other > people couldn't see me work. I just want the tool. > > -Stickman > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From fire at b3dMultitech.com Tue Jan 19 00:39:55 2010 From: fire at b3dMultitech.com (Fire) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 01:39:55 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Can Bots upload textures? Message-ID: <1dabc2a31001190039u3dc4e1a6t6a3923f3e6f46b2d@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, just wondering if uploading textures using C# and libsecondlife (openmv) is possible? I want to integrate this with my site, so users can,select an image from their hd, and upload it to SL from my website. I have a mono bot installed that can accept http commands from my website, so the missing piece is now to add the texture uploading bit.. has this been done yet? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100119/b039ba20/attachment.htm From tateru.nino at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 03:33:15 2010 From: tateru.nino at gmail.com (Tateru Nino) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:33:15 +1100 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <824c8ab71001190021w10b2440clb83a303cd79e7a2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <569F501B-1672-4C1F-B921-93B1566194AC@gmail.com> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> <824c8ab71001190021w10b2440clb83a303cd79e7a2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B55987B.4060903@gmail.com> With about a half an hour extra coding and a couple simple processes you could use that to lash up an alternate texture delivery network, bypassing the grid's own asset servers entirely, if you wanted to. It'd be relatively trivial. Heck, I can think of a couple existing infrastructures that could be overloaded for delivery and routing. Granted, there would be concerns of trust and security, of course. On 19/01/2010 7:21 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: > Fully agree to Stickman here. > > Seems like it might be a fairly small challenge to implement, skipping > the upload pipeline and a mechanism to keep/refresh the asset locally. > > It doesn't have to be fantastically complicated, the feature would > serve a single purpose. It ought to be able to handle multiple local > textures though, not just a single one, just because it could. > > - Nexii > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Stickman wrote: > >>>> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 >>>> >> >>> That JIRA describes quite another thing. Although it gets around the upload >>> charge, it still requires an upload. It is still done on the servers. >>> >> You make a very good point. Local files would be much faster. That's a >> good advantage to local files. Server files would let other people see >> the changes, which is a different advantage. >> >> Your goal you state is exactly my goal. Make editing simpler and faster. >> >> But in his Jira it says: >> "If it points to a local file, that cuts out the upload time AND the >> download time..." >> >> He points out the existence of "temporary uploads" as existing in >> other clients, then expands on the idea in the same way I did. Like >> me, he doesn't care if it uses local files or these temporary uploads, >> he just wants textures to auto-update while you're building. >> >> That's the whole point: Auto-updating temporary assets (server or >> local, who cares) so you can see your work in progress. >> >> If they were done serverside, I'd handle the "lag" or wait of a round >> trip and love the fact other people could watch. If they were done >> clientside, I'd love the speed of change and deal with the fact other >> people couldn't see me work. I just want the tool. >> >> -Stickman >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > -- Tateru Nino http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ From anthonyrbundy at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 07:47:49 2010 From: anthonyrbundy at gmail.com (Anthony Bundy) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:47:49 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Can Bots upload textures? In-Reply-To: <1dabc2a31001190039u3dc4e1a6t6a3923f3e6f46b2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1dabc2a31001190039u3dc4e1a6t6a3923f3e6f46b2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <277a41081001190747h5b9bf9aate00294c8601a2706@mail.gmail.com> Yes, if you look at the test client example, there is a UploadImage command implemented. You can use that as an example to create your own, or modify the test client to do the other things you want. I would mention, though that you probably would want to direct these questions to the openMV mailing list. Info at: http://openmv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libsl-dev ~Tony On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Fire wrote: > Hi everyone, > > just wondering if uploading textures using C# and libsecondlife (openmv) is > possible? > I want to integrate this with my site, so users can,select an image from > their hd, and upload it to SL from my website. > I have a mono bot installed that can accept http commands from my website, > so the missing piece is now to add the texture uploading bit.. > > has this been done yet? > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100119/bcff4e3f/attachment.htm From nexiim at googlemail.com Tue Jan 19 20:59:47 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 04:59:47 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B55987B.4060903@gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> <824c8ab71001190021w10b2440clb83a303cd79e7a2b@mail.gmail.com> <4B55987B.4060903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001192059t6198e9d8o3411f5f90932ad3@mail.gmail.com> Is that meant as sarcastic? - Nexii On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Tateru Nino wrote: > With about a half an hour extra coding and a couple simple processes you > could use that to lash up an alternate texture delivery network, > bypassing the grid's own asset servers entirely, if you wanted to. It'd > be relatively trivial. Heck, I can think of a couple existing > infrastructures that could be overloaded for delivery and routing. > > Granted, there would be concerns of trust and security, of course. > > On 19/01/2010 7:21 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: >> Fully agree to Stickman here. >> >> Seems like it might be a fairly small challenge to implement, skipping >> the upload pipeline and a mechanism to keep/refresh the asset locally. >> >> It doesn't have to be fantastically complicated, the feature would >> serve a single purpose. It ought to be able to handle multiple local >> textures though, not just a single one, just because it could. >> >> - Nexii >> >> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Stickman wrote: >> >>>>> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 >>>>> >>> >>>> That JIRA describes quite another thing. ?Although it gets around the upload >>>> charge, it still requires an upload. ?It is still done on the servers. >>>> >>> You make a very good point. Local files would be much faster. That's a >>> good advantage to local files. Server files would let other people see >>> the changes, which is a different advantage. >>> >>> Your goal you state is exactly my goal. Make editing simpler and faster. >>> >>> But in his Jira it says: >>> "If it points to a local file, that cuts out the upload time AND the >>> download time..." >>> >>> He points out the existence of "temporary uploads" as existing in >>> other clients, then expands on the idea in the same way I did. Like >>> me, he doesn't care if it uses local files or these temporary uploads, >>> he just wants textures to auto-update while you're building. >>> >>> That's the whole point: Auto-updating temporary assets (server or >>> local, who cares) so you can see your work in progress. >>> >>> If they were done serverside, I'd handle the "lag" or wait of a round >>> trip and love the fact other people could watch. If they were done >>> clientside, I'd love the speed of change and deal with the fact other >>> people couldn't see me work. I just want the tool. >>> >>> -Stickman >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> >> > > -- > Tateru Nino > http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From nexiim at googlemail.com Tue Jan 19 21:19:40 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:19:40 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <4B568F8D.8070103@superliminal.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> <824c8ab71001190021w10b2440clb83a303cd79e7a2b@mail.gmail.com> <4B55987B.4060903@gmail.com> <824c8ab71001192059t6198e9d8o3411f5f90932ad3@mail.gmail.com> <4B568F8D.8070103@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001192119i6892be16sb5462bcc8e719fe8@mail.gmail.com> When I did a quick skim at first to see the estimate probability of the ease of implementation, I noticed that the client has a lot of code already to handle local textures, even from the upload pipeline it isn't far off, during the final lines of the upload sequence when it calls gAssetStorage for the legacy upload I think had some parameters to enable a local-only upload. Which would be one step in the direction of this feature already. Mind you, was a quick skim for an estimate. I'm already working on trying to get it as a feature in my custom client, anyone willing once the implementation is finished may then attempt to create a jira patch from it or just learn from how I did it. - Nexii From tateru.nino at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 21:26:17 2010 From: tateru.nino at gmail.com (Tateru Nino) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:26:17 +1100 Subject: [sldev] Local textures for fast editing; was: SL 2.0? In-Reply-To: <824c8ab71001192059t6198e9d8o3411f5f90932ad3@mail.gmail.com> References: <201001092058.54587.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B505BB3.5080001@Gmail.com> <4B510641.2010702@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5482E3.8090202@fishkill.ibm.com> <824c8ab71001190021w10b2440clb83a303cd79e7a2b@mail.gmail.com> <4B55987B.4060903@gmail.com> <824c8ab71001192059t6198e9d8o3411f5f90932ad3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B5693F9.1020605@gmail.com> Not at all. Why? On 20/01/2010 3:59 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: > Is that meant as sarcastic? > > - Nexii > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Tateru Nino wrote: > >> With about a half an hour extra coding and a couple simple processes you >> could use that to lash up an alternate texture delivery network, >> bypassing the grid's own asset servers entirely, if you wanted to. It'd >> be relatively trivial. Heck, I can think of a couple existing >> infrastructures that could be overloaded for delivery and routing. >> >> Granted, there would be concerns of trust and security, of course. >> >> On 19/01/2010 7:21 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: >> >>> Fully agree to Stickman here. >>> >>> Seems like it might be a fairly small challenge to implement, skipping >>> the upload pipeline and a mechanism to keep/refresh the asset locally. >>> >>> It doesn't have to be fantastically complicated, the feature would >>> serve a single purpose. It ought to be able to handle multiple local >>> textures though, not just a single one, just because it could. >>> >>> - Nexii >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Stickman wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14320 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> That JIRA describes quite another thing. Although it gets around the upload >>>>> charge, it still requires an upload. It is still done on the servers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> You make a very good point. Local files would be much faster. That's a >>>> good advantage to local files. Server files would let other people see >>>> the changes, which is a different advantage. >>>> >>>> Your goal you state is exactly my goal. Make editing simpler and faster. >>>> >>>> But in his Jira it says: >>>> "If it points to a local file, that cuts out the upload time AND the >>>> download time..." >>>> >>>> He points out the existence of "temporary uploads" as existing in >>>> other clients, then expands on the idea in the same way I did. Like >>>> me, he doesn't care if it uses local files or these temporary uploads, >>>> he just wants textures to auto-update while you're building. >>>> >>>> That's the whole point: Auto-updating temporary assets (server or >>>> local, who cares) so you can see your work in progress. >>>> >>>> If they were done serverside, I'd handle the "lag" or wait of a round >>>> trip and love the fact other people could watch. If they were done >>>> clientside, I'd love the speed of change and deal with the fact other >>>> people couldn't see me work. I just want the tool. >>>> >>>> -Stickman >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Tateru Nino >> http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> >> > -- Tateru Nino http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ From leonel.morgado at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 02:03:59 2010 From: leonel.morgado at gmail.com (Leonel Morgado) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:03:59 +0000 Subject: [sldev] CFC (Feb 15, 2010): * Virtual Worlds, Second Life and Metaverse Platforms: New Communication and Identity Paradigms * Message-ID: <80cf01371001200203v1f14d402k4d2fdcce9033bedd@mail.gmail.com> Apologies for cross-posting. Please warn potentially interested parties. ********** CALL FOR CHAPTER PROPOSALS ********** Proposal Submission Deadline: February 15, 2010 *** Virtual Worlds, Second Life and Metaverse Platforms: New Communication and Identity Paradigms *** A book edited by Nelson Zagalo, University of Minho, Leonel Morgado, University of Tr?s-os-Montes e Alto Douro, and Ana Boa-Ventura, The University of Texas at Austin To be published by IGI Global: http://www.igi-global.com/requests/details.asp?ID=794 ***Introduction*** The metaverse is emerging, through the increasing use of virtual world technologies that act as platforms for end-users to create, develop, and interact, expanding the realm of human communication, and collaboration. Researchers and scholars are experiencing the importance of this new area. The private sector is also strongly investing in these domains. Even more importantly, society is responding, and this will have a huge impact on life transformation. This book will present texts whose focus are the scientific research on uses, effects, developments and applications of various metaverse platforms, such as Second Life, Home (Sony), OpenSimulator, Open Croquet, Activeworlds, Project Wonderland, World of Warcraft and others. The goal is to provide a forum for the research community to present and discuss innovative approaches. Whereas metaverse platforms are not a novel topic, they continue to pose challenges in areas such as the adaptation of conventional research methodologies and communication practices. Furthermore, these platforms are reshaping our frameworks in topics as important as digital identity, collaboration, entertainment and play, technology and arts, educational objects, virtual space and digital representation, and communication design. ***Objectives of the Book*** The mission of this book is to discuss the main issues, challenges, opportunities and trends related to the metaverse and its potential for research, society and technological evolution. The overall objectives are: . To discuss the impact of the metaverse and related new paradigms; . To present new technological developments, and their current and future possibilities . To present affective and cognitive effects of virtual worlds . To discuss anthropological and social impacts; . To present new creation and simulation perspectives for art and design . To discuss the future generations of virtual worlds; . To provide guidance for further research and development; . To build a bridge between research and practice. ***Target Audience*** The target audience of this book will be composed of professionals and researchers working in the fields of virtual worlds, virtual environments, virtual reality, videogames, communication, design, computer science, education, psychology and information technology. ***Recommended topics include, but are not limited to, the following:*** . Design . Interactivity . Technology . Simulation . Games and Play . Aesthetics . Creativity . Communication Paradigms . Education . Collaboration . Behavioral studies and Emotion ***Submission Procedure*** Potential contributors are invited to submit on or before February 15, 2010, a 2-3 page chapter proposal clearly explaining the mission and concerns of his or her proposed chapter. Authors of accepted proposals will be notified by March 15, 2010 about the status of their proposals and sent chapter guidelines. Full chapters are expected to be submitted by June 15, 2007. All submitted chapters will be reviewed on a double-blind review basis. Contributors may also be requested to serve as reviewers for this project. To follow the progress of this project, please visit regularly: http://sites.google.com/site/metaverseparadigms ***Publisher*** This book is scheduled to be published by IGI Global (formerly Idea Group Inc.), publisher of the ?Information Science Reference? (formerly Idea Group Reference), ?Medical Information Science Reference,? ?Business Science Reference,? and ?Engineering Science Reference? imprints. For additional information regarding the publisher, please visit www.igi-global.com. This publication is anticipated to be released in 2011 ***Important Dates*** February 15, 2010: Proposal Submission Deadline March 15, 2010: Notification of Acceptance June 15, 2010: Full Chapter Submission August 30, 2010: Review Results Returned October 30, 2010: Final Chapter Submission November 30, 2010: Final Deadline ***Editorial Advisory Board Members*** Graham Attwell, University of Warwick, United Kingdom Craig Becker, Emerging 3D Internet and Virtual Business EBO, IBM, USA Isabel Valverde, Institute for Human Studies and Intelligent Sciences, Portugal ***Inquiries and submissions can be forwarded electronically (Word document) or by mail to: *** Nelson Zagalo Communication and Society Studies Centre University of Minho - ICS 4710-057 Braga - Portugal Phone: +351 253 604 214 . Fax: +351 253 604 697 . Mobile: +351 962761660 e-mail: nzagalo at ics.uminho.pt or nzagalo at gmail.com *** http://sites.google.com/site/metaverseparadigms *** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100120/fb93e89d/attachment.htm From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 17:10:52 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:10:52 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 Message-ID: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> is it a bug or a feature in IM tab of communicate windows there is anymore "profile" button for ppl in friendlist but only "teleport"? From merov at lindenlab.com Wed Jan 20 17:24:45 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:24:45 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Tayra Dagostino wrote: > is it a bug or a feature in IM tab of communicate windows there is > anymore "profile" button for ppl in friendlist but only "teleport"? > Feature: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-402 Funny, we grappled with it in PJIRA. Others find it annoying? Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100120/ad452203/attachment.htm From ardylay at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 17:36:02 2010 From: ardylay at gmail.com (Ardy Lay) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:36:02 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2072 New Feature -> UI -> IM -> Teleport (other person) Button http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-402 Adding Teleport button, in IM panel It is a feature requested by some residents. Since clicking on the name of the resident you are in IM with opens their profile, the profile button was seen as redundant and changed to the frequently used function of offering a friend a teleport. Try it and tell us what you think. Tayra Dagostino wrote: > is it a bug or a feature in IM tab of communicate windows there is > anymore "profile" button for ppl in friendlist but only "teleport"? > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > From gbrandon at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 17:46:00 2010 From: gbrandon at gmail.com (Brandon Lockaby) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:46:00 -0500 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's funny because what if the other person IMs you first On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Ardy Lay wrote: > http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2072 > New Feature -> UI -> IM -> Teleport (other person) Button > > http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-402 > Adding Teleport button, in IM panel > > It is a feature requested by some residents. Since clicking on the name > of the resident you are > in IM with opens their profile, the profile button was seen as redundant > and changed to the > frequently used function of offering a friend a teleport. > > Try it and tell us what you think. > > Tayra Dagostino wrote: > > is it a bug or a feature in IM tab of communicate windows there is > > anymore "profile" button for ppl in friendlist but only "teleport"? > > _______________________________________________ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100120/9885ded9/attachment.htm From ardylay at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 17:50:51 2010 From: ardylay at gmail.com (Ardy Lay) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:50:51 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B57B2FB.9010707@gmail.com> Brandon Lockaby wrote: > It's funny because what if the other person IMs you first > Perhaps I missed something important in testing. Please explain what is "funny". From open at autistici.org Wed Jan 20 18:01:15 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:01:15 +0000 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:36:02 -0600, Ardy Lay wrote: > Since clicking on the name > of the resident you are > in IM with opens their profile, the profile button was seen as redundant > and changed to the > frequently used function of offering a friend a teleport. Even if I'm used to open Profiles by clicking names in chat windows, I didn't immediately realized that the Profile button was redundant. I agree it was. I think I agree with the feature as it's currently implemented. (but I didn't test it enough yet) Anyway, I suggest it would make sense to explicitly state in the Release notes what Ardy explained - that is, let's remember to users they can click names in chat windows and that will open users profile windows. My personal feeling is that not everybody knows that. Opensource Obscure From holydoughnuts at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 18:07:27 2010 From: holydoughnuts at gmail.com (Tori C.) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:07:27 -0500 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e0db80e1001201807u40604f30re0bb05bde613e463@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Feature: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-402 > > Funny, we grappled with it in PJIRA. Others find it annoying? I'm afraid so. I'm not the fastest mouser, and am frequently tripped up by missed links when the text scrolls (clicking my name when aiming for theirs). That profile button is technically redundant, but it's a nice easy target to whack. From merov at lindenlab.com Wed Jan 20 20:03:25 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:03:25 -0800 Subject: [sldev] End game for Snowglobe 1.3 Message-ID: <78f69851001202003r5cd25e45h43aac1c2affeddb9@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've been testing and triaging and building like crazy trying to squeeze everything out before branching. I haven't branched tonight though so to give a last chance to a couple of patches that are dangling (see below) but tomorrow is the day. I think we have weeded out the list of outstanding bugs enough that we can actually work on a branch for the remaining one. Here's a summary of where we stand with the last 8 bugs: Show Stopper: 1 SNOW-431 Boost downloads for Snowglobe 1.3 aren't really 1.39.0 : this one is a show stopper clearly as we can't really ship a FLOSS project with source issue like that. Could be fixed on the branch though. Patch attached: 3 SNOW-122 disable crashlogger via client parameters (VWR-12678) : I'm letting Robin looking at it over night. That one already missed 1.2 so it's too bad to miss 1.3. SNOW-392 llTextBox in client Non-Functional - Functionality Patch Attached : We just cleared the CLA issue (welcome Hewee! :) ) but then I realized it was a 1.22 based patch. Needs some work to adapt to 1.23. Plus is a sizable patch. Might need to be punted. SNOW-365 Audio stream Stop event lost from standard output : I did a small patch tonight. Waiting on Tofu to comment as it's right in his llaudio refactoring. Still problematic but could be punted if no new elements in the next few days: 4 SNOW-169 Viewer crash: LLViewerImage::doLoadedCallbacks: ASSERT (mRawImage.notNull()) : Need work, not a systematic issue though. SNOW-447 Fonts become fuzzy and unreadable at any scale. : waiting for the reporter to give precision. If you run japanese, korean or chinese, could you check this one out? SNOW-394 Installation: conflict on destop icon creation : Need new test. Help appreciated. SNOW-196 Deadlock in LLTextureFetchWorker::lockWorkMutex / LLThread::lockData / LLTextureFetch::lockQueue : Bao snatched that one this afternoon, working intensively on this. Plan for tomorrow: - Check incoming emails and overnight commits (if any) - Branch 1.3 - Do version number, channel, etc... changes and build 1.3 - Get a clean official RC - Hippo meeting: we should get that build ready by 2pm and should spend time again testing it, squarely focusing on regression testing and narrowing/evaluating the severity of those remaining bugs. Almost there... - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100120/09df749c/attachment.htm From secret.argent at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 04:24:23 2010 From: secret.argent at gmail.com (Argent Stonecutter) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:24:23 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> On 2010-01-20, at 19:24, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Funny, we grappled with it in PJIRA. Others find it annoying? I find it borderline showstopper for upgrading. Bringing up the profile isn't only done as a prelude to offering teleport. Adding a teleport button, fine. Replacing profile with teleport, WTF? From trilobyte550m at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 04:51:51 2010 From: trilobyte550m at gmail.com (Trilo Byte) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:51:51 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74A62590-A835-45F6-9F37-24EC81F52FE6@gmail.com> Probably also worth noting that the change does not appear in the Mac version of build 3109, I still only see a profile button. TriloByte Zanzibar On Jan 21, 2010, at 4:24 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > On 2010-01-20, at 19:24, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: >> Funny, we grappled with it in PJIRA. Others find it annoying? > > I find it borderline showstopper for upgrading. Bringing up the > profile isn't only done as a prelude to offering teleport. Adding a > teleport button, fine. Replacing profile with teleport, WTF? > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From carlo at alinoe.com Thu Jan 21 04:58:33 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:58:33 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100121125833.GA29186@alinoe.com> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 06:24:23AM -0600, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > I find it borderline showstopper for upgrading. Bringing up the > profile isn't only done as a prelude to offering teleport. Adding a > teleport button, fine. Replacing profile with teleport, WTF? +1 I use that profile button constantly - and definitely not only to teleport people! Please add it back! -- Carlo Wood From latifer at streamgrid.net Thu Jan 21 05:08:04 2010 From: latifer at streamgrid.net (Latif Khalifa) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:08:04 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100121125833.GA29186@alinoe.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> <20100121125833.GA29186@alinoe.com> Message-ID: <5ebce2ec1001210508ve82ae4eg99ab23897221377b@mail.gmail.com> > +1 > > I use that profile button constantly - and definitely not only > to teleport people! > > Please add it back! +1 for me too. Removing the button wasn't the best option, a lot of accumulated muscle memory going to waste. From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 05:31:50 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:31:50 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100121125833.GA29186@alinoe.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> <2941A5BD-B243-4A55-A529-544BD2C6A7BE@gmail.com> <20100121125833.GA29186@alinoe.com> Message-ID: <3605835928300741028@unknownmsgid> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 06:24:23AM -0600, Argent Stonecutter wrote: >> I find it borderline showstopper for upgrading. Bringing up the >> profile isn't only done as a prelude to offering teleport. Adding a >> teleport button, fine. Replacing profile with teleport, WTF? > > +1 > > I use that profile button constantly - and definitely not only > to teleport people! > > Please add it back! > +1 for me, i use often look profile to understand who look for me in IM than tp him/her to me..... From dmahalko at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 06:30:35 2010 From: dmahalko at gmail.com (Dale Mahalko) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:30:35 -0600 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? Message-ID: (I don't know if there is some other way I should be asking this question.) Could someone from LL update the viewer roadmap page on the Wiki? The "future" roadmap is now the past roadmap. The last official LL edit was by Steve Linden on 24 April 2009. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Roadmap - Dale From carlo at alinoe.com Thu Jan 21 07:51:35 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:51:35 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 02:01:15AM +0000, Opensource Obscure wrote: > Even if I'm used to open Profiles by clicking names > in chat windows, I didn't immediately realized that > the Profile button was redundant. I agree it was. It's not redundant: there is no garantee that the there is a nickname to click on in that window. You can have just opened the tab, and there is no chat text in it at all. Or you IM-ed that person, but he doesn't respond (or you don't want to have to wait till he responds). Or it's an old TAB and the chat has scrolled away with "online/offline" notices. In the chat tab of a particular person, what is more logical than having a button to open the profile of that person? Clicking on the NAME of a person to open their profile only makes sense in chat windows with multiple persons: group chat, friend conference or local chat. In an IM window one just wants a button that is always there. -- Carlo Wood From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Thu Jan 21 08:04:53 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:04:53 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> Message-ID: <201001211704.53151.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Am Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 16:51:35 schrieb Carlo Wood: > In the chat tab of a particular person, what is more > logical than having a button to open the profile > of that person? Clicking on the NAME of a person > to open their profile only makes sense in chat > windows with multiple persons: group chat, friend > conference or local chat. In an IM window one just > wants a button that is always there. THAT. From marinekelley at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 08:15:47 2010 From: marinekelley at gmail.com (Marine Kelley) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:15:47 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <201001211704.53151.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <201001211704.53151.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <4203CE0C-B38F-49DA-884D-330383012430@gmail.com> Sorry for the "me too" kind of mail, but well... +1 ! The user always likes it better to have buttons at a predictable place. Muscle memory and all that. The name of a person in IM or in chat is just a floating Profile button, which may be here, or there, or farther away, or even nowhere at all. Marine On 21 janv. 2010, at 17:04, Lance Corrimal wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 16:51:35 schrieb Carlo Wood: > >> In the chat tab of a particular person, what is more >> logical than having a button to open the profile >> of that person? Clicking on the NAME of a person >> to open their profile only makes sense in chat >> windows with multiple persons: group chat, friend >> conference or local chat. In an IM window one just >> wants a button that is always there. > > > > THAT. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges From colin.kern at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 09:54:18 2010 From: colin.kern at gmail.com (Colin Kern) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:54:18 -0500 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> Message-ID: <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Carlo Wood wrote: > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 02:01:15AM +0000, Opensource Obscure wrote: >> Even if I'm used to open Profiles by clicking names >> in chat windows, I didn't immediately realized that >> the Profile button was redundant. I agree it was. > > It's not redundant: there is no garantee that the > there is a nickname to click on in that window. > But if there's not a nickname to click, then that means you were the one who IM'ed them, which you can't do without pulling up their profile anyway, or by going to your friends list, where there's a profile button. I can't think of a way to IM someone without being one click away from their profile. So it is kind of redundant still. Colin From merov at lindenlab.com Thu Jan 21 10:11:24 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:11:24 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone hates the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's little incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. Sorry Yann... Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100121/739715da/attachment.htm From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 10:12:34 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:12:34 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <1e0db80e1001201807u40604f30re0bb05bde613e463@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <78f69851001201724v2faa3046t539f17920d136fc5@mail.gmail.com> <1e0db80e1001201807u40604f30re0bb05bde613e463@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100121191234.b6311d01.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:07:27 -0500 "Tori C." wrote: > > Feature: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-402 > > > > Funny, we grappled with it in PJIRA. Others find it annoying? > > I'm afraid so. I'm not the fastest mouser, and am frequently tripped > up by missed links when the text scrolls (clicking my name when aiming > for theirs). That profile button is technically redundant, but it's a > nice easy target to whack. profile is redundant, like teleport, pay, about land, a lot of, but like when somebody "move" the takeof and sit in pie menu any kind of change in this way create confusion, is a better solution rip off button from freindlist and put pay/profile/teleport only in IM tab... replace in this way isn't so nice From tillie at xp2.de Thu Jan 21 10:20:50 2010 From: tillie at xp2.de (Tillie Ariantho) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:20:50 +0100 Subject: [sldev] End game for Snowglobe 1.3 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001202003r5cd25e45h43aac1c2affeddb9@mail.gmail.com> References: <78f69851001202003r5cd25e45h43aac1c2affeddb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B589B02.3060506@xp2.de> On 21.01.2010 05:03, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > SNOW-394 Installation: conflict on destop icon creation : Need new > test. Help appreciated. I just tested this again. - When I have the original icon (installed by 'admin') on the desktop and then do a new snowglobe install, the icon gets replaced. - When I create a Snowglobe icon on the desktop manually that is owned by the current (non-admin) user, then the installer creates a second Snowglobe icon. But it only gets visible after a F5-refresh on the desktop. With both tries I had no desktop explorer crash this time, when clicking any of the icons. I commented on the jira, too. Silver Key / Tillie Ariantho From sldev at catznip.com Thu Jan 21 12:10:49 2010 From: sldev at catznip.com (Kitty) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:10:49 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com><4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com><20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com><77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57DAF98ED9B240F6A83078F0260CC033@panther> >OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone >hates the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's >little incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. Most of the outcry seems to be about replacing the button, which is different from having it there in addition to the existing "Profile" button? For me personally, replacing the "Profile" button only for friends who are currently online seems a bit counter-intuitive/confusing because that button on top will do different things for windows that are really identical from the user's point of view (or even within the same window where you reach for the "Teleport" button, the friend logs off, and by the time you click you're looking at their profile). Even adding it for friends (and graying it out if they're offline) and not showing it for non-friends would seem confusing since I don't think I'd realize why it's showing up on some IMs but not on others. Kitty From ardylay at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 12:52:58 2010 From: ardylay at gmail.com (Ardy Lay) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:52:58 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> Haha... I see. So roll-back it is. I like the idea but do admit the implementation of a button that changes labels can be confusing. I am often torn between always having the button I want handy and keeping the UI simple by not duplicating anything. In most cases I just use what I find. (Takes notes for future reference.) Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Hi, > > OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone hates > the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's little > incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. > > Sorry Yann... > > Cheers, > - Merov > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges From tigrospottystripes at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 13:10:57 2010 From: tigrospottystripes at gmail.com (Tigro Spottystripes) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:10:57 -0200 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B58C2E1.7060601@Gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 you could have right-clicked a passing av that teleported away without saying anything, or that is using only voice and isn't on view right now On 21/1/2010 15:54, Colin Kern wrote: > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Carlo Wood wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 02:01:15AM +0000, Opensource Obscure wrote: >>> Even if I'm used to open Profiles by clicking names >>> in chat windows, I didn't immediately realized that >>> the Profile button was redundant. I agree it was. >> >> It's not redundant: there is no garantee that the >> there is a nickname to click on in that window. >> > > But if there's not a nickname to click, then that means you were the > one who IM'ed them, which you can't do without pulling up their > profile anyway, or by going to your friends list, where there's a > profile button. I can't think of a way to IM someone without being > one click away from their profile. So it is kind of redundant still. > > Colin > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLWMLc8ZFfSrFHsmURAvouAJ4qC8U2iYy2fILl4DGezPQsP8DQYgCeLUnO MouCSKWCWzhzWm+s1G6GPOc= =4aPb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From billyrose at netins.net Thu Jan 21 13:26:37 2010 From: billyrose at netins.net (Billy Rose) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:26:37 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <57DAF98ED9B240F6A83078F0260CC033@panther> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com><4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com><20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com><77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <57DAF98ED9B240F6A83078F0260CC033@panther> Message-ID: <51D9DBB8-15C1-4236-9E0A-808D18C604F1@netins.net> I tend to adhere to the KISS philosophy myself. I'm pulling my hair out just trying to get everything to compile 64 bit natively on Ubuntu so that I can run it on that OS's native ABI. I can't see why a simple button has led to such an argument when other factors have inherent difficulties that cause dramatically higher levels of frustration. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 21, 2010, at 2:10 PM, "Kitty" wrote: >> OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone >> hates the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's >> little incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. > > Most of the outcry seems to be about replacing the button, which is > different from having it there in addition to the existing "Profile" > button? > > For me personally, replacing the "Profile" button only for friends > who are > currently online seems a bit counter-intuitive/confusing because > that button > on top will do different things for windows that are really > identical from > the user's point of view (or even within the same window where you > reach for > the "Teleport" button, the friend logs off, and by the time you > click you're > looking at their profile). > > Even adding it for friends (and graying it out if they're offline) > and not > showing it for non-friends would seem confusing since I don't think > I'd > realize why it's showing up on some IMs but not on others. > > Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges From robertltux at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 13:48:18 2010 From: robertltux at gmail.com (Robert Martin) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:48:18 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Code refactor possible?? Message-ID: Just floating an idea for the future would it be possible to go and restructure the code so that interface "tweaks" and addon features could be done without doing a recompile for the main sl executeable?? I would love for somebody to get back to the work on VWR-6199 but the whole program crashing (and other problems) kind of gets in the way of that Maybe in the 1.9 or 2.1 roadmap?? -- Robert L Martin From lenglish5 at cox.net Thu Jan 21 14:06:53 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:06:53 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Code refactor possible?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B58CFFD.20005@cox.net> Robert Martin wrote: > Just floating an idea for the future would it be possible to go and > restructure the code so that interface "tweaks" and addon features > could be done without doing a recompile for the main sl executeable?? > > I would love for somebody to get back to the work on VWR-6199 but the > whole program crashing (and other problems) kind of gets in the way of > that > > Maybe in the 1.9 or 2.1 roadmap?? > > Take a look at realxtend's naali project. They've basically started rewriting the C++ viewer from scratch under an MIT (?) license (maybe BSD). There are several other from-scratch projects out there: pyogp in python. limomv in C#. I'm experimenting with smalltalk (well, kinda sorta). The wheel may need reinventing more than once, but don't ignore the other wheelwrights while you're at it. Lawson From kf6kjg at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 14:41:31 2010 From: kf6kjg at gmail.com (Ricky) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:41:31 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3bb9647e1001211441u55994a0dna1c6f44828b7e2f0@mail.gmail.com> Personally, I like having the teleport button. I use it very often. But I can see why there should also be a profile button. Just refactor so that the patch creates a new teleport button just below the profile button. I know this adds another UI element, but I find that TP button very useful. Ricky Cron Stardust On Thursday, January 21, 2010, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Hi, > > OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone hates the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's little incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. > > Sorry Yann... > > Cheers, > - Merov > From q at lindenlab.com Thu Jan 21 15:45:29 2010 From: q at lindenlab.com (Kent Quirk (Q Linden)) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:45:29 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Dale Mahalko wrote: > (I don't know if there is some other way I should be asking this question.) > > Could someone from LL update the viewer roadmap page on the Wiki? The > "future" roadmap is now the past roadmap. > > The last official LL edit was by Steve Linden on 24 April 2009. > > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Roadmap As Howard just announced today: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2010/01/21/coming-soon-viewer-2-public-beta we're close to release of Viewer 2. I will commit to updating this roadmap once Viewer 2 is released. We're being asked to keep relatively tight-lipped until then. I still won't be able to talk about everything, but we should be able to say a lot more. Q From carlo at alinoe.com Thu Jan 21 15:50:43 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:50:43 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100121235043.GA19462@alinoe.com> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 12:54:18PM -0500, Colin Kern wrote: > But if there's not a nickname to click, then that means you were the > one who IM'ed them, which you can't do without pulling up their > profile anyway, or by going to your friends list, where there's a > profile button. I can't think of a way to IM someone without being > one click away from their profile. So it is kind of redundant still. If it aint going to be two buttons, then both are redundant: with a profile button you can offer a teleport with two clicks. With only a teleport button you have to hover the mouse precisely over a nickname, or go to the friendslist first. Add to that that it's annoying if people send you teleports all the time, while it isn't annoying if they open (just) your profile, and the choice for profile or teleport button isn't that hard :p -- Carlo Wood From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Thu Jan 21 16:35:42 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:35:42 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B58F2DE.8010308@fishkill.ibm.com> Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: > As Howard just announced today: > > https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2010/01/21/coming-soon-viewer-2-public-beta > > we're close to release of Viewer 2. > > I will commit to updating this roadmap once Viewer 2 is released. We're being asked to keep relatively tight-lipped until then. I still won't be able to talk about everything, but we should be able to say a lot more. "The current viewer, version 1.23, will not go away any time soon. In the earliest case, following the policy T described here, 1.23 will be around until 30 days after we ship Viewer 2.1 (our first update to the new viewer), about a quarter after delivery of Viewer 2. Even then, there will continue to be open source viewers based on the 1.23 code base available for users who wish to continue using them." "We've got a bit of work to do to rebase Snowglobe off of the Viewer 2 code base and merge in Snowglobe changes, but we're on it." "We need help from our robust, passionate developer community to develop "power user" and more niche market viewers." So Snowglobe goes newbie 2.0, but you expect the open source community to develop off the old code base? I hate it already. And the secrecy gives me more time to hate it more. "If you're a software development geek, you might be interested to know that we're in the thick of a substantial transition in how we build software. Most of our teams have moved to a Scrum-inspired model, keeping iterations short, quality high and working off of a clearly prioritized product backlog." Seven months (and counting) is a short iteration? Using the buzzwords doesn't make it Agile. Mike From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 16:47:56 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:47:56 +0100 Subject: [sldev] End game for Snowglobe 1.3 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001202003r5cd25e45h43aac1c2affeddb9@mail.gmail.com> References: <78f69851001202003r5cd25e45h43aac1c2affeddb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100122014756.72e18139.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:03:25 -0800 "Philippe (Merov) Bossut" wrote: > Hi, > > I've been testing and triaging and building like crazy trying to > squeeze everything out before branching. I haven't branched tonight > though so to give a last chance to a couple of patches that are > dangling (see below) but tomorrow is the day. I think we have weeded > out the list of outstanding bugs enough that we can actually work on > a branch for the remaining one. Here's a summary of where we stand > with the last 8 bugs: [CUT] > Almost there... there is something strange with SLPlugin, after some hours and a lot of profile or search open/close there are from 4 to 6 child in memory, all loading 100% all cpu cores.... one solution provided some time ago by Opensource Obscure was a nice "killall SLPlugin", a warning appear inside viewer but all work after (for other couple hours), i think there is something hidden may cause problem, in this list we talk about but nobody can diagnose correctly this behaviour..... none of Linden seen this bad effect? From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 16:47:56 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:47:56 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100122014756.095694a4.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:11:24 -0800 "Philippe (Merov) Bossut" wrote: > Hi, > > OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone > hates the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's > little incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. as suggested by Kitty i think is better hold PROFILE button, and add TELEPORT (removing it from kmain friendlist tab, so maybe the party tp random stalker stop to take fun ;) ), i think are few xml line of template and a couple of code... (to be honest... in main friendlist tab should be only add&remove&conference... all other imho can be safely moved inside the IM windows, like PAY, im/chat, teleport, profile, etc.) before rollback maybe is better talk deeply about, somebody ask for it, somebody else dislike it, maybe a middle way satisfy all... From q at lindenlab.com Thu Jan 21 17:28:37 2010 From: q at lindenlab.com (Kent Quirk (Q Linden)) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:28:37 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? In-Reply-To: <4B58F2DE.8010308@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <4B58F2DE.8010308@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> On Jan 21, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Mike Monkowski wrote: > Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: >> As Howard just announced today: >> https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2010/01/21/coming-soon-viewer-2-public-beta >> we're close to release of Viewer 2. I will commit to updating this roadmap once Viewer 2 is released. We're being asked to keep relatively tight-lipped until then. I still won't be able to talk about everything, but we should be able to say a lot more. > > "The current viewer, version 1.23, will not go away any time soon. In the earliest case, following the policy T described here, 1.23 will be around until 30 days after we ship Viewer 2.1 (our first update to the new viewer), about a quarter after delivery of Viewer 2. Even then, there will continue to be open source viewers based on the 1.23 code base available for users who wish to continue using them." > > "We've got a bit of work to do to rebase Snowglobe off of the Viewer 2 code base and merge in Snowglobe changes, but we're on it." > > "We need help from our robust, passionate developer community to develop "power user" and more niche market viewers." > > So Snowglobe goes newbie 2.0, but you expect the open source community to develop off the old code base? No -- but also don't expect everyone will adapt. Our intent is to have Snowglobe rebased as quickly as we can pull it off. > > I hate it already. And the secrecy gives me more time to hate it more. Um, ok. > "If you're a software development geek, you might be interested to know that we're in the thick of a substantial transition in how we build software. Most of our teams have moved to a Scrum-inspired model, keeping iterations short, quality high and working off of a clearly prioritized product backlog." > > Seven months (and counting) is a short iteration? Using the buzzwords doesn't make it Agile. He said we're changing. It's taken time to change systems and processes. And, by the way, having short iterations doesn't mean releasing every iteration. So the snark is a bit misplaced. We've been silent; we haven't released anything in a while -- that's true. We're changing -- but I don't suppose you have to believe us until we prove it. It's my stated intention, as the lead of the viewer development team, to prove it. I can see it from here, so I'm excited about it. From melinda at superliminal.com Thu Jan 21 17:31:37 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:31:37 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> I have a suggestion for a solution that gives the best of both worlds by not adding extra controls, keeps the most common action one click away, and still lets you get at the other person-to-person actions with the least extra effort. The solution is to use a "flyout" button instead of regular buttons. The viewer currently uses one for the "Communicate" toolbar button and another for the "Save" button in the snapshot tool when set to save to disk. Take the snapshot case: It looks just like a "Save" button and works as you would expect, but there is an additional "Save As" option under the drop-down triangle control. I've mocked up the XML to show what it would look like in an IM tab. See the attached a screen shot. Here's the XML for reference: Profile Teleport IM Call Pay Neat, eh? Using this approach we can use whichever default operation makes the most sense in each situation, with the rest of the operations in the drop-down. If desired, we can probably even code it to automatically switch defaults depending upon friend online status, etc. Users who do not know about or discover the added functionality will be no worse off then they would be with the button schemes being considered here, and once they learn about the additional options, they will come to expect the same pattern in other P2P situations. The only thing that remains to be decided is the default behavior in each situation. We can continue to debate that here but this appears to solve the main problem of having either too many controls or not enough. -Melinda Ardy Lay wrote: > Haha... I see. So roll-back it is. I like the idea but do admit the > implementation of a button that > changes labels can be confusing. I am often torn between always having > the button I want handy > and keeping the UI simple by not duplicating anything. In most cases I > just use what I find. > > (Takes notes for future reference.) > > Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone hates >> the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's little >> incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. >> >> Sorry Yann... >> >> Cheers, >> - Merov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: flyout.png Type: image/png Size: 41631 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100121/8a2097a7/attachment-0001.png From kf6kjg at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 17:51:58 2010 From: kf6kjg at gmail.com (Ricky) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:51:58 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <3bb9647e1001211751q7293d0fdt92fba34ff4311b3a@mail.gmail.com> This looks like a pretty valid solution. As to which is the default when... I don't know. I do know that the teleport option should not be available for offline users, not just not the default. Also, if you are in the IM window... Why would there me an IM option? Ricky Cron Stardust On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Melinda Green wrote: > I have a suggestion for a solution that gives the best of both worlds by > not adding extra controls, keeps the most common action one click away, and > still lets you get at the other person-to-person actions with the least > extra effort. The solution is to use a "flyout" button instead of regular > buttons. The viewer currently uses one for the "Communicate" toolbar button > and another for the "Save" button in the snapshot tool when set to save to > disk. Take the snapshot case: It looks just like a "Save" button and works > as you would expect, but there is an additional "Save As" option under the > drop-down triangle control. > > I've mocked up the XML to show what it would look like in an IM tab. See > the attached a screen shot. Here's the XML for reference: > > label="Teleport" left="5" > list_position="below" mouse_opaque="true" name="tp_btn" > tool_tip="Offer teleport" > width="85"> > name="profile_item">Profile > name="tp_item">Teleport > IM > name="call_item">Call > Pay > > Neat, eh? Using this approach we can use whichever default operation makes > the most sense in each situation, with the rest of the operations in the > drop-down. If desired, we can probably even code it to automatically switch > defaults depending upon friend online status, etc. Users who do not know > about or discover the added functionality will be no worse off then they > would be with the button schemes being considered here, and once they learn > about the additional options, they will come to expect the same pattern in > other P2P situations. The only thing that remains to be decided is the > default behavior in each situation. We can continue to debate that here but > this appears to solve the main problem of having either too many controls or > not enough. > > -Melinda > > > Ardy Lay wrote: > >> Haha... I see. So roll-back it is. I like the idea but do admit the >> implementation of a button that >> changes labels can be confusing. I am often torn between always having the >> button I want handy >> and keeping the UI simple by not duplicating anything. In most cases I >> just use what I find. >> >> (Takes notes for future reference.) >> >> Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if everyone hates >>> the feature (or at least, there's enough outcry that there's little >>> incentive to change the previous behavior), lets roll it back. >>> >>> Sorry Yann... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> - Merov >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100121/7f736c7d/attachment.htm From merov at lindenlab.com Thu Jan 21 18:20:52 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:20:52 -0800 Subject: [sldev] End game for Snowglobe 1.3 In-Reply-To: <20100122014756.72e18139.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> References: <78f69851001202003r5cd25e45h43aac1c2affeddb9@mail.gmail.com> <20100122014756.72e18139.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78f69851001211820k2901873ybfab40c4e976902f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Tayra, On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Tayra Dagostino wrote: > > there is something strange with SLPlugin, after some hours and a lot of > profile or search open/close there are from 4 to 6 child in memory, all > loading 100% all cpu cores.... one solution provided some time ago by > Opensource Obscure was a nice "killall SLPlugin", a warning appear > inside viewer but all work after (for other couple hours), i think > there is something hidden may cause problem, in this list we talk about > but nobody can diagnose correctly this behaviour..... > > none of Linden seen this bad effect? > This is the kind of stress test I don't go through so, please, log it to Snowglobe and link it back to the meta plugin issue: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-383 Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100121/73157427/attachment.htm From melinda at superliminal.com Thu Jan 21 21:45:31 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:45:31 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <3bb9647e1001211751q7293d0fdt92fba34ff4311b3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <3bb9647e1001211751q7293d0fdt92fba34ff4311b3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B593B7B.5020205@superliminal.com> Ricky, I'm glad that you like the solution. Of course you're right that an IM option would be silly in an IM context, and that Teleport would be equally silly when the person is offline. This was just a quick XML mock-up to show you what it would generally look like. A complete implementation would include controller logic to either hide or grey-out options that are invalid whenever the drop-down is opened. -Melinda Ricky wrote: > This looks like a pretty valid solution. As to which is the default > when... I don't know. I do know that the teleport option should not > be available for offline users, not just not the default. > > Also, if you are in the IM window... Why would there me an IM option? > > Ricky > Cron Stardust > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Melinda Green > > wrote: > > I have a suggestion for a solution that gives the best of both > worlds by not adding extra controls, keeps the most common action > one click away, and still lets you get at the other > person-to-person actions with the least extra effort. The solution > is to use a "flyout" button instead of regular buttons. The viewer > currently uses one for the "Communicate" toolbar button and > another for the "Save" button in the snapshot tool when set to > save to disk. Take the snapshot case: It looks just like a "Save" > button and works as you would expect, but there is an additional > "Save As" option under the drop-down triangle control. > > I've mocked up the XML to show what it would look like in an IM > tab. See the attached a screen shot. Here's the XML for reference: > > label="Teleport" left="5" > list_position="below" mouse_opaque="true" name="tp_btn" > tool_tip="Offer teleport" > width="85"> > name="profile_item">Profile > name="tp_item">Teleport > name="im_item">IM > name="call_item">Call > name="pay_item">Pay > > Neat, eh? Using this approach we can use whichever default > operation makes the most sense in each situation, with the rest of > the operations in the drop-down. If desired, we can probably even > code it to automatically switch defaults depending upon friend > online status, etc. Users who do not know about or discover the > added functionality will be no worse off then they would be with > the button schemes being considered here, and once they learn > about the additional options, they will come to expect the same > pattern in other P2P situations. The only thing that remains to be > decided is the default behavior in each situation. We can continue > to debate that here but this appears to solve the main problem of > having either too many controls or not enough. > > -Melinda > > > Ardy Lay wrote: > > Haha... I see. So roll-back it is. I like the idea but do > admit the implementation of a button that > changes labels can be confusing. I am often torn between > always having the button I want handy > and keeping the UI simple by not duplicating anything. In > most cases I just use what I find. > > (Takes notes for future reference.) > > Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > > > Hi, > > OK, got it. After all folks, that's your project so, if > everyone hates the feature (or at least, there's enough > outcry that there's little incentive to change the > previous behavior), lets roll it back. > > Sorry Yann... > > Cheers, > - Merov > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated > posting privileges > > From nexiim at googlemail.com Thu Jan 21 23:13:52 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:13:52 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Where is Dynamic Refelctions? In-Reply-To: References: <4B172F28.1030302@Gmail.com> <7328D858-90D1-41FC-A832-F67E22562619@gmail.com> <4B1E24D9.2040902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001212313p7d0f86a2w97c44c3c795c963f@mail.gmail.com> > Would be great to compile the exact changes that have been done. I > tried to look at it myself to find where the dynamic reflections is > but having trouble. Is the major portion of the reflection code in > LLVOSky::updateReflectionGeometry ? Where is this called from, etc? > Would be great to know the hierarchy of the reflection code and > attempt to create a similar implementation but for our current updated > rendering pipeline which seems to be structurally quite different to > the old one. > > - Nexii Ah dang, always forget to hit Reply to All On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > On 2009-12-08, at 04:05, Ardy Lay wrote: >> Argent Stonecutter wrote: >>> The problem is that the only really good version of dynamic >>> reflections was First Look 57575, well before the Open Source >>> program. >>> The later versions were all fuzzy and hardly worth using. > >> I seem to be finding some archives here: >> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Obsolete_Source_downloads > > Oh, nice, it just barely made the cut. > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From sllists at boroon.dasgupta.ch Fri Jan 22 03:48:54 2010 From: sllists at boroon.dasgupta.ch (Boroondas Gupte) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:48:54 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> Melinda Green schrieb: > The solution is to use a "flyout" button instead of regular buttons. Good idea. Also, I think the very same options should be made available in the context menu when you click someone's name (or even chat) in a conference/group session or local chat. I think we can live with some UI redundancy as long as it's unobtrusive when it increases comfort by having the most important actions always "at your fingertips" whatever you might be doing just now. > Using this approach we can use whichever default operation makes the > most sense in each situation, with the rest of the operations in the > drop-down. If desired, we can probably even code it to automatically > switch defaults depending upon friend online status, etc. I don't think we should change the defaults automagically, that'd be confusing. Also it'd again bring up the usability race condition of clicking the button while the contact is logging in or out, resulting in another action than intended. Choose as the default action something that's often needed and is always available (e.g., the current button's functionality, opening the profile). For the flyout, just enable/disable (grey out) entries depending on context/state, but keep the list the same. cheers Boroondas PS: Wouldn't this discussion be suitable for the sl-ux list? From secret.argent at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 04:53:47 2010 From: secret.argent at gmail.com (Argent Stonecutter) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 06:53:47 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> Message-ID: There's plenty of room across the top there, why not just add a button? From secret.argent at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 05:05:47 2010 From: secret.argent at gmail.com (Argent Stonecutter) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:05:47 -0600 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100122014756.095694a4.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <20100122014756.095694a4.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why on earth would removing it from the main friendslist tab discourage stalkers? It's only one extra click. From garmin.kawaguichi at magalaxie.com Fri Jan 22 06:22:53 2010 From: garmin.kawaguichi at magalaxie.com (Garmin Kawaguichi) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:22:53 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe 3119: Double-Click Auto-Pilot/Teleport References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com><4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com><20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com><77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com><78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com><20100122014756.095694a4.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59EAFFB0CB7E420EA0FBBDE9AD9C9417@Deimos> Double-Click Auto-Pilot and Double-Click Teleport settings (this is not really a bug!) These settings are under Advanced :: UI :: Double-Click Auto-Pilot and Double-Click Teleport and can be checked ; unfortunately for the user, it is allowed to check the both options at the same time!!! In that case Double-Click Auto-Pilot keeps the control; is it possible to modify that menu (UI) in order that only one option could be checked? GCI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100122/81b1323d/attachment.htm From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Fri Jan 22 08:57:18 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:57:18 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? In-Reply-To: <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> References: <4B58F2DE.8010308@fishkill.ibm.com> <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <4B59D8EE.5050507@fishkill.ibm.com> Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: > On Jan 21, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Mike Monkowski wrote: >>Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: >>"We need help from our robust, passionate developer community to develop "power user" and more niche market viewers." >> >>So Snowglobe goes newbie 2.0, but you expect the open source community to develop off the old code base? > > No -- but also don't expect everyone will adapt. Our intent is to have Snowglobe rebased as quickly as we can pull it off. So what does the "We need help" above refer to? Converting the newbie 2.0 viewer into a Classic viewer? Doesn't anyone at Linden remember New Coke? >>Seven months (and counting) is a short iteration? Using the buzzwords doesn't make it Agile. > > He said we're changing. It's taken time to change systems and processes. And, by the way, having short iterations doesn't mean releasing every iteration. So the snark is a bit misplaced. We've been silent; we haven't released anything in a while -- that's true. We're changing -- but I don't suppose you have to believe us until we prove it. It's my stated intention, as the lead of the viewer development team, to prove it. I can see it from here, so I'm excited about it. True, having short iterations doesn't mean releasing every iteration, but you only get the benefit if you do. The whole point of Agile is to get frequent feedback from the users so you don't stray too far off track. Without the communications it's just self-adulation. "We've been silent....We're changing..." I think I liked it better when we saw things coming down through the release cycle. Mike From brickrte at odyssey.net Fri Jan 22 09:42:08 2010 From: brickrte at odyssey.net (brickrte at odyssey.net) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:42:08 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Starting Over Message-ID: <20100122174218.107C01CEDD7F@smtprelay01.b.hostedemail.com> Jeees I hate to do this again :-) .. but, I had a serious virus but was able to save my data. In the process, I went to a newer, bigger, faster hard drive and reinstalled VS 2005 and fmod, cmake, python, cygwin etc. Reran develop.py -G VC80 and develop.py build. All the application projects now give some thing like this: 18>------ Build started: Project: llworldmap_test_ok, Configuration: RelWithDebInfo Win32 ------ 18>Generating llworldmap_test_ok.txt 19>------ Build started: Project: llworldmipmap_test_ok, Configuration: RelWithDebInfo Win32 ------ 19>Generating llworldmipmap_test_ok.txt 18>-- Failure running: C:/SnowGlobe/linden/indra/build-vc80/newview/RelWithDebInfo/llworldmap_test. exe;--touch=C:/SnowGlobe/linden/indra/build-vc80/newview/llworldmap_test_ok. txt;--sourcedir=C:/SnowGlobe/linden/indra/newview 18>CMake Error at C:/SnowGlobe/linden/indra/cmake/RunBuildTest.cmake:19 (message): 18> Error: This application has failed to start because the application 18> configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this 18> problem 18>Project : error PRJ0019: A tool returned an error code from "Generating llworldmap_test_ok.txt" 18>Build log was saved at "file://c:\SnowGlobe\linden\indra\build-vc80\newview\llworldmap_test_ok.dir\ RelWithDebInfo\BuildLog.htm" 18>llworldmap_test_ok - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s) Any clues? Second question: I'm trying to move from 1.24 to 1.30Trunk. Have checked out the source. Do I need to get the lib and artwork zips separately or are they also somewhere in the repository. I'm using TortiseSVN. Thanks. again Larry/Shor PS: If there is a more appropriate place to ask these type questions, just tell me. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4797 (20100122) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100122/34e62542/attachment.htm From sempuki1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 10:59:35 2010 From: sempuki1 at gmail.com (Ryan McDougall) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:59:35 +0200 Subject: [sldev] Code refactor possible?? In-Reply-To: <4B58CFFD.20005@cox.net> References: <4B58CFFD.20005@cox.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Lawson English wrote: > Robert Martin wrote: >> Just floating an idea for the future would it be possible to go and >> restructure the code so that interface "tweaks" and addon features >> could be done without doing a recompile for the main sl executeable?? >> >> I would love for somebody to get back to the work on VWR-6199 but the >> whole program crashing (and other problems) kind of gets in the way of >> that >> >> Maybe in the 1.9 or 2.1 roadmap?? >> >> > > Take a look at realxtend's naali project. They've basically started > rewriting the C++ viewer from scratch under an MIT (?) license (maybe BSD). Naali is a Qt application, intended to be highly modular, so it can be reskinned and repurposed very easily. http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/stylesheet-examples.html http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/designer-ui-file-format.html It's also alpha software, so it's probably not yet ready for much more than hobbying just yet -- but as a true open source project, where the community is allowed commit access, that really depends on who wants to come and participate. Back to your scheduled programming... Cheers, > There are several other from-scratch projects out there: pyogp in > python. limomv in C#. I'm experimenting with smalltalk (well, kinda > sorta). The wheel may need reinventing more than once, but don't ignore > the other wheelwrights while you're at it. > > > Lawson > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From melinda at superliminal.com Fri Jan 22 12:22:53 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:22:53 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> Message-ID: <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> Boroondas Gupte wrote: > Melinda Green schrieb: > >> The solution is to use a "flyout" button instead of regular buttons. >> > Good idea. Also, I think the very same options should be made available > in the context menu when you click someone's name (or even chat) in a > conference/group session or local chat. I think we can live with some UI > redundancy as long as it's unobtrusive when it increases comfort by > having the most important actions always "at your fingertips" whatever > you might be doing just now. > Exactly. And yes, the general idea is to use this pattern in every P2P context so that users automatically know what to do with it wherever they see it. >> Using this approach we can use whichever default operation makes the >> most sense in each situation, with the rest of the operations in the >> drop-down. If desired, we can probably even code it to automatically >> switch defaults depending upon friend online status, etc. >> > I don't think we should change the defaults automagically, that'd be > confusing. Also it'd again bring up the usability race condition of > clicking the button while the contact is logging in or out, resulting in > another action than intended. Choose as the default action something > that's often needed and is always available (e.g., the current button's > functionality, opening the profile). For the flyout, just enable/disable > (grey out) entries depending on context/state, but keep the list the same. I don't think that we should automagically switch the defaults either. I just wanted to note for those who were advocating that sort of thing that it should still be possible with this UI. > > PS: Wouldn't this discussion be suitable for the sl-ux list? > Probably. I'm just not on that list. I just remember that in RX meetings we'd often dream of an ultimate solution but never hit on it. It just occurred to me the other day that the little-known flyout button was exactly the tool for the job. Argent Stonecutter wrote: > There's plenty of room across the top there, why not just add a button? It's not about the room for one more button. There would be similar requests for *each* of the P2P actions in every such context. That road leads to there always being either too many or two few buttons for different sets of users. This way there is only one button with all the other operations immediately available. Even two buttons can often be too much clutter which is why I implemented the snapshot "Save As" using a flyout button with only two options. Adding a single button may not seem like a big deal, but ever visible control requires some level of user attention and is therefore a serious cost. The whole point of the 2.0 viewer is to flatten the learning curve by reducing that clutter. -Melinda From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Fri Jan 22 13:29:22 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:29:22 -0500 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> Melinda Green wrote: > Even two buttons can often be > too much clutter which is why I implemented the snapshot "Save As" using > a flyout button with only two options. Adding a single button may not > seem like a big deal, but ever visible control requires some level of > user attention and is therefore a serious cost. The whole point of the > 2.0 viewer is to flatten the learning curve by reducing that clutter. Reducing the clutter is a noble goal, but flyout buttons do have a discoverability issue, so they're more likely to steepen the learning curve rather than flatten it. Mike From aleric.inglewood at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 13:48:08 2010 From: aleric.inglewood at gmail.com (Aleric Inglewood) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:48:08 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? In-Reply-To: <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> References: <4B58F2DE.8010308@fishkill.ibm.com> <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> Message-ID: <1e01733d1001221348h5d81057dwe7a4563eaee1659e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: > It's my stated intention, as the lead of the viewer development team, to > prove it. I can see it from here, so I'm excited about it. > Q, my fingers are itching to start to work on some real improvements of snowglobe... but I can't, because there is going to be a huge merge with unknown and closed source some time in the future. I hope this is a one time thing. If you want to be open source you should be OPEN SOURCE. This whole 2.0 thingy is starting to annoy me to no end. If it happens again, it's probably best to just fork snowglobe and turn into an independent Open Source project where people don't have to hold back constantly with making changes because some invisible team is working behind the scenes and refuses to communicate about what they do. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100122/02d0ba57/attachment.htm From melinda at superliminal.com Fri Jan 22 13:50:03 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:50:03 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> Mike Monkowski wrote: > Melinda Green wrote: >> Even two buttons can often be too much clutter which is why I >> implemented the snapshot "Save As" using a flyout button with only >> two options. Adding a single button may not seem like a big deal, but >> ever visible control requires some level of user attention and is >> therefore a serious cost. The whole point of the 2.0 viewer is to >> flatten the learning curve by reducing that clutter. > > Reducing the clutter is a noble goal, but flyout buttons do have a > discoverability issue, so they're more likely to steepen the learning > curve rather than flatten it. A flyout button won't steepen the learning curve because it will be no more confusing that it is currently. Discoverability of the new functionality is certainly a consideration, but once learned in one context, users will quickly discover (and expect) it in others. -Melinda From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Fri Jan 22 14:13:38 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:13:38 -0500 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> Message-ID: <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> Melinda Green wrote: > Mike Monkowski wrote: > >> Melinda Green wrote: >> >>> Even two buttons can often be too much clutter which is why I >>> implemented the snapshot "Save As" using a flyout button with only >>> two options. Adding a single button may not seem like a big deal, but >>> ever visible control requires some level of user attention and is >>> therefore a serious cost. The whole point of the 2.0 viewer is to >>> flatten the learning curve by reducing that clutter. >> >> >> Reducing the clutter is a noble goal, but flyout buttons do have a >> discoverability issue, so they're more likely to steepen the learning >> curve rather than flatten it. > > > A flyout button won't steepen the learning curve because it will be no > more confusing that it is currently. Discoverability of the new > functionality is certainly a consideration, but once learned in one > context, users will quickly discover (and expect) it in others. OK, I may be just an exception, but it was months before I accidentally clicked on the triangle next to "Say" and discovered the "Shout" and "Whisper." I've now been using SL for years but just recently noticed the flyout on "Communicate" while I was working with the UI code. Was that there the whole time? Mike From melinda at superliminal.com Fri Jan 22 14:27:59 2010 From: melinda at superliminal.com (Melinda Green) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:27:59 -0800 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <4B5A266F.6050805@superliminal.com> Mike Monkowski wrote: > Melinda Green wrote: >> Mike Monkowski wrote: >> >>> Melinda Green wrote: >>> >>>> Even two buttons can often be too much clutter which is why I >>>> implemented the snapshot "Save As" using a flyout button with only >>>> two options. Adding a single button may not seem like a big deal, >>>> but ever visible control requires some level of user attention and >>>> is therefore a serious cost. The whole point of the 2.0 viewer is >>>> to flatten the learning curve by reducing that clutter. >>> >>> >>> Reducing the clutter is a noble goal, but flyout buttons do have a >>> discoverability issue, so they're more likely to steepen the >>> learning curve rather than flatten it. >> >> >> A flyout button won't steepen the learning curve because it will be >> no more confusing that it is currently. Discoverability of the new >> functionality is certainly a consideration, but once learned in one >> context, users will quickly discover (and expect) it in others. > > OK, I may be just an exception, but it was months before I > accidentally clicked on the triangle next to "Say" and discovered the > "Shout" and "Whisper." I've now been using SL for years but just > recently noticed the flyout on "Communicate" while I was working with > the UI code. Was that there the whole time? I don't know, but these flyout options are clearly power-user features similar to right-click actions. They should never be required for normal operation, and given that you've gotten along so far without the ones you mentioned, it seems to have worked. The holy grail UI is one in which new users only see the common important elements, yet still allows more experienced users to discover helpful new tips and tricks. I think that the flyout button is underused in this way which is probably why it took me so long to think of using it as a unified P2P control. -Melinda From Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de Fri Jan 22 14:50:16 2010 From: Lance.Corrimal at eregion.de (Lance Corrimal) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:50:16 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update? In-Reply-To: <1e01733d1001221348h5d81057dwe7a4563eaee1659e@mail.gmail.com> References: <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> <1e01733d1001221348h5d81057dwe7a4563eaee1659e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <201001222350.16557.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Am Freitag 22 Januar 2010 schrieb Aleric Inglewood: > On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: > > It's my stated intention, as the lead of the viewer development > > team, to prove it. I can see it from here, so I'm excited about > > it. > > Q, my fingers are itching to start to work on some real > improvements of snowglobe... but I can't, because there is going > to be a huge merge with unknown and closed source some time in the > future. > > I hope this is a one time thing. If you want to be open source > you should be OPEN SOURCE. This whole 2.0 thingy is starting to > annoy me to no end. If it happens again, it's probably best to > just fork snowglobe and turn into an independent Open Source > project where people don't have to hold back constantly with > making changes because some invisible team is working behind the > scenes and refuses to communicate about what they do. > snowglobe is 100% GPL, right? gimme 15 mins and it's on sourceforge. ok maybe more than 15 mins, the svn checkin would be HUGE. From sllists at boroon.dasgupta.ch Fri Jan 22 15:23:59 2010 From: sllists at boroon.dasgupta.ch (Boroondas Gupte) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:23:59 +0100 Subject: [sldev] [POLICY] Could Snowglobe be forked? (was: Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update?) In-Reply-To: <201001222350.16557.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> References: <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> <1e01733d1001221348h5d81057dwe7a4563eaee1659e@mail.gmail.com> <201001222350.16557.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> Message-ID: <4B5A338F.6090008@boroon.dasgupta.ch> Lance Corrimal schrieb: > snowglobe is 100% GPL, right? > For low values of 100% ... see https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Libraries Though, of course GPL isn't a requirement for being forkable. (I think all the *required* libs are either free or have a free replacement.) cheers Boroondas From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 15:33:07 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:33:07 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <20100122014756.095694a4.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100123003307.fd16357b.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:05:47 -0600 Argent Stonecutter wrote: > Why on earth would removing it from the main friendslist tab > discourage stalkers? It's only one extra click. i don't want... is only an alternative to remove "redundant" button... i like old way button :) From robertltux at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 15:33:43 2010 From: robertltux at gmail.com (Robert Martin) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:33:43 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Fwd: [POLICY] Could Snowglobe be forked? (was: Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update?) In-Reply-To: References: <05E0EF86-D6D7-40A0-A232-2B10F5D75ECF@lindenlab.com> <1e01733d1001221348h5d81057dwe7a4563eaee1659e@mail.gmail.com> <201001222350.16557.Lance.Corrimal@eregion.de> <4B5A338F.6090008@boroon.dasgupta.ch> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robert Martin Date: Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [sldev] [POLICY] Could Snowglobe be forked? (was: Wiki "Viewer Roadmap" update?) To: Boroondas Gupte On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Boroondas Gupte wrote: > Lance Corrimal schrieb: >> snowglobe is 100% GPL, right? >> > For low values of 100% ... see > https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Libraries > > Though, of course GPL isn't a requirement for being forkable. (I think > all the *required* libs are either free or have a free replacement.) > ?as it happens a certain gemstone named viewer has a version that is based on SnowGlobe (on all version the TPL are provided by snagging them from a LL viewer) -- Robert L Martin -- Robert L Martin From merov at lindenlab.com Fri Jan 22 17:11:24 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:11:24 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe 1.3 RC0 Message-ID: <78f69851001221711r6fc66c75o71e16142fd94f6fd@mail.gmail.com> Hi, So, here it goes: we branched Snowglobe 1.3 from trunk and built the first "Snowglobe Release" 1.3 off that branch, calling it "RC0" for good form. Thanks to all who showed up at the test sprint and helped triage all the remaining 10 or so bugs Thursday. We're now down to 4 bugs (1 show stopper, 3 on the watch list) and will continue to monitor bugs and regressions in the coming week, waiting for the show stopper to be fixed and none other showing up before declaring that version done. So please, download, use, test and report bugs in PJIRA when finding them (don't forget screen shots, SLURLs and other contextual data that can help repro and narrow the bug). Here are the new stuff since the last similar email (made for build 3085): - New features: * SNOW-122 Add --disablecrashlogger parameter to viewer command line * SNOW-322 Double clicking on the mini-map pass the selected position when opening world map. * SNOW-350 Fixes Library Inventory for OGPX * SNOW-424 Autosave script files in case of crash - Bugs fixed: * SNOW-124 Improved fonts.xml selection for Chinese, Korean, Japanese * SNOW-365 Add back audio stream Stop event printout in standard output * SNOW-377 Less CPU intensive wind synthesis * SNOW-418 Fix MacOS X 10.4 PPC plugin failure * SNOW-421 Double-click teleport: tweaks and fixes * SNOW-434 Fix unsafe threaded operation in lltexturefetch.cpp * SNOW-435 Fix mHeaderMutex recursive lock * SNOW-438 Changing RenderMaxNodeSize (allow rendering of small jewelry) * SNOW-441 Fixes URL strings for Help in English (default) and localized languages * SNOW-448 Sync message template to head Downloads: Windows: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/1.3/3119/Snowglobe_1-3-0-3119_Setup.exe Darwin: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/1.3/3119/Snowglobe_1_3_0_3119.dmg Linux: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/1.3/3119/Snowglobe-i686-1.3.0.3119.tar.bz2 Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100122/b10dac4f/attachment.htm From merov at lindenlab.com Fri Jan 22 18:07:17 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:07:17 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Snowglobe 3119: Double-Click Auto-Pilot/Teleport In-Reply-To: <59EAFFB0CB7E420EA0FBBDE9AD9C9417@Deimos> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <20100122014756.095694a4.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <59EAFFB0CB7E420EA0FBBDE9AD9C9417@Deimos> Message-ID: <78f69851001221807h1cf4726do7ca96d0b0ea19c5a@mail.gmail.com> Hi Garmin, On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 6:22 AM, Garmin Kawaguichi < garmin.kawaguichi at magalaxie.com> wrote: > Double-Click Auto-Pilot and Double-Click Teleport settings (this is not > really a bug!) > > These settings are under Advanced :: UI :: Double-Click Auto-Pilot > and Double-Click Teleport and can be checked ; unfortunately for the user, > it is allowed to check the both options at the same time!!! In that case > Double-Click Auto-Pilot keeps the control; is it possible to modify that > menu (UI) in order that only one option could be checked? > Good catch. Please report this in PJIRA so we can track it: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100122/9d1ff493/attachment.htm From billyrose at netins.net Sat Jan 23 12:18:30 2010 From: billyrose at netins.net (Billy Rose) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:18:30 -0600 Subject: [sldev] 64 bit on Ubuntu 9.10 Message-ID: <6BF11A8A-E6EB-4C38-B355-86B232F6D636@netins.net> Got 1.2.4 to compile and run, but a message box pops up stating that the webkit plugin can not load (compiled llqtwebkit myself against QT 4.5.2, which I also had to compile). I've also compiled all other dependencies, such as ELFIO, jsoncpp, etc. But the webkit seems to possess the most issues. Also, I've not seen this posted anywhere, but I tried -G "Codeblocks -Unix Makefiles" for the develop script and it works; creates the Code::Blocks project files with all proper settings. Can't get 1.3 RC to compile yet, will post further updates as progress is made. Question, is there an alternative to using QT and llqtwebkit for that plugin? From robin.cornelius at gmail.com Sat Jan 23 12:34:21 2010 From: robin.cornelius at gmail.com (Robin Cornelius) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:34:21 +0000 Subject: [sldev] 64 bit on Ubuntu 9.10 In-Reply-To: <6BF11A8A-E6EB-4C38-B355-86B232F6D636@netins.net> References: <6BF11A8A-E6EB-4C38-B355-86B232F6D636@netins.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Billy Rose wrote: > Got 1.2.4 to compile and run, but a message box pops up stating that > the webkit plugin can not load (compiled llqtwebkit myself against QT > 4.5.2, which I also had to compile). I've also compiled all other > dependencies, such as ELFIO, jsoncpp, etc. But the webkit seems to > possess the most issues. Also, I've not seen this posted anywhere, but > I tried -G "Codeblocks -Unix Makefiles" for the develop script and it > works; creates the Code::Blocks project files with all proper > settings. Can't get 1.3 RC to compile yet, will post further updates > as progress is made. Question, is there an alternative to using QT and > llqtwebkit for that plugin? llqtwebkit works fine on 64 bit, i ship precompiled debs for debian stable and ubuntu karmic, but these will only play nicely with the binary if everything is in the correct location, there is a complete set for debian but only 1.23.5 (with backported webkit -pluginAPI) on karmic currently, no snowglobe build although its all ready to go and all dependencies are in place for both debian and ubunty now. How are you building llqtwebkit? are you using distro supplied qt4? you may find this helpful, this is what quite a few of the other 64bit builders do http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Robin_Cornelius/standalone_qtwebkit I would push on with snowglobe 1.3 ( or svn trunk) as its got fixes in it for the build wrt 1.2 and if you get any build issues ping back here or hit the IRC channel #opensl on EFNet. I assume you are doing a --standalone build for native 64bit ? Robin From tigrospottystripes at gmail.com Sat Jan 23 18:02:22 2010 From: tigrospottystripes at gmail.com (Tigro Spottystripes) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:02:22 -0200 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> References: <20100121021052.a24ac2a6.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> <4B57AF82.1090402@gmail.com> <20100121155135.GB29186@alinoe.com> <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> Message-ID: <4B5BAA2E.5000405@Gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 the little down arrow on the right of the control reminds me of the little down arrow on the side of dropdown and copmbo boxes, that made the so called 'fly out" buttons completly intuitive for me... On 22/1/2010 20:13, Mike Monkowski wrote: > Melinda Green wrote: >> Mike Monkowski wrote: >> >>> Melinda Green wrote: >>> >>>> Even two buttons can often be too much clutter which is why I >>>> implemented the snapshot "Save As" using a flyout button with only >>>> two options. Adding a single button may not seem like a big deal, but >>>> ever visible control requires some level of user attention and is >>>> therefore a serious cost. The whole point of the 2.0 viewer is to >>>> flatten the learning curve by reducing that clutter. >>> >>> >>> Reducing the clutter is a noble goal, but flyout buttons do have a >>> discoverability issue, so they're more likely to steepen the learning >>> curve rather than flatten it. >> >> >> A flyout button won't steepen the learning curve because it will be no >> more confusing that it is currently. Discoverability of the new >> functionality is certainly a consideration, but once learned in one >> context, users will quickly discover (and expect) it in others. > > OK, I may be just an exception, but it was months before I accidentally > clicked on the triangle next to "Say" and discovered the "Shout" and > "Whisper." I've now been using SL for years but just recently noticed > the flyout on "Communicate" while I was working with the UI code. Was > that there the whole time? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLW6os+dvI+XYnc2YRAnEmAJ94UCjPT+cYlpQgt7BVx1QPzwDFFgCgtbhH +MA6/XknOvhD3RdDRDAafqI= =cJry -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From carlo at alinoe.com Sat Jan 23 18:09:16 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:09:16 +0100 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <4B5BAA2E.5000405@Gmail.com> References: <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5BAA2E.5000405@Gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100124020916.GA11034@alinoe.com> On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:02:22AM -0200, Tigro Spottystripes wrote: > the little down arrow on the right of the control reminds me of the > little down arrow on the side of dropdown and copmbo boxes, that made > the so called 'fly out" buttons completly intuitive for me... Would have for me, if it weren't an arrow UP. Therefore I've missed it's use also for a long time (months). -- Carlo Wood From tigrospottystripes at gmail.com Sat Jan 23 20:44:59 2010 From: tigrospottystripes at gmail.com (Tigro Spottystripes) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:44:59 -0200 Subject: [sldev] build 3109 In-Reply-To: <20100124020916.GA11034@alinoe.com> References: <77c421f01001210954v1c2cb54fw7bf4ca45d2837c17@mail.gmail.com> <78f69851001211011p2da9e33fo862568ea6693aa1e@mail.gmail.com> <4B58BEAA.1090408@gmail.com> <4B58FFF9.3020904@superliminal.com> <4B5990A6.4020904@boroon.dasgupta.ch> <4B5A091D.5030001@superliminal.com> <4B5A18B2.9010005@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5A1D8B.8030103@superliminal.com> <4B5A2312.1080200@fishkill.ibm.com> <4B5BAA2E.5000405@Gmail.com> <20100124020916.GA11034@alinoe.com> Message-ID: <4B5BD04B.6000707@Gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 it is an arrow down? 0.0 Well, lately with the way my vision is, things like > somtimes look backwards somehow, perhaps that is why i remembered it as being upside down. Though if i did saw it pointing up, a little triangle pointing anywhere would be easily recognizable as an arrow, and since they were on the right of somthing, with a separator but still looking like a button, i clicked on it to see what it would do, arrows on GUI usually are elements that are meant to be clicked on, with it being part of the Say button, i expected it to show somthing related to it, probably shouting, and nowadays, whispering too, and that was what happened, int he snapshot window, a single save button, and no save as, next tot he save button a little arrow like the one on the Say button, i imagined it would be for save as, and it was, a Profile button with a little arrow in the IM window would make me expect it to have alternative options that are related to IMing and the person i'm talking with. On 24/1/2010 00:09, Carlo Wood wrote: > On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:02:22AM -0200, Tigro Spottystripes wrote: >> the little down arrow on the right of the control reminds me of the >> little down arrow on the side of dropdown and copmbo boxes, that made >> the so called 'fly out" buttons completly intuitive for me... > > Would have for me, if it weren't an arrow UP. Therefore I've > missed it's use also for a long time (months). > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLW9BI+dvI+XYnc2YRArmmAKC5aN/ND8q4a3PodrVaZD/I336rTQCg8ffK GkTPKE3bwpaR5AWkyX3sp7U= =GSeC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From open at autistici.org Mon Jan 25 06:16:48 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:16:48 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Using Sikuli to automate SL viewer. Case: snapshots Message-ID: Thanks to LL's web developer Jeffrey Carl Faden, who recently about it on Twitter, yesterday I discovered MIT's Sikuli: http://sikuli.org http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/screen-shots-0120.html Using Sikuli, in a few minutes I did something that I never managed to do before - basically, "get a snapshot out of SL without directly using the viewer GUI". http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=431873 It's a sort of hack, but it actually works. The Sikuli script starts the SL viewer, wait for buttons to appear and automatically click them in a predefined sequence. AFAIK, bots can't do snapshots - so the only way to do something like was is to automate the use of a traditional viewer. Sikuli lets you do in a very very easy way. According to your setup and your operating system, this obviously can be remotely controlled. For example, one could set up an LSL HTTP-in script that detects the presence of an avatar. A second script on your computer periodically can call that script and ask if anyone is around. If the answer is positive, a third script (the Sikuli one) is started: it runs the viewer, logs in-world, take a snapshot, sends it via email and logs out. This kind of tools has obviously much more vast implications than what I'm specifically talking about here - I also guess they will be soon abused in creative ways... :| bye Opensource Obscure -- http://slurl.com/secondlife/LOL/12/34/56 From rusyasoft at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 06:52:34 2010 From: rusyasoft at gmail.com (Rustam Rakhimov) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:52:34 +0900 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object Message-ID: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> I wanna trace mouse movement, I hope someone know how to do it, because I'm totally lost myself in source code. Lets say there is some 3d box object. if Mouse will point on that object, how is possible detect x,y projection of the mouse on that object. Please help me anyone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100125/d465c86f/attachment.htm From open at autistici.org Mon Jan 25 08:05:57 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:05:57 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:52:34 +0900, Rustam Rakhimov wrote: > I wanna trace mouse movement, I hope someone know how to do it, because I'm > totally lost myself in source code. > > Lets say there is some 3d box object. if Mouse will point on that object, > how is possible detect x,y projection of the mouse on that object. this is LSL, but maybe can help you: http://slateit.org/media/faq.html Maybe I just missed out its implementations, but I always wondered why this idea never got traction in the SL scripted tools market (not SlateIT itself, but the "field of view" technique). I just verified that the open script is available at Babbage's Linden spot: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/214/32/29 HTH. bye Opensource Obscure -- http://www.youtube.com/opensourceobscure From jacek.antonelli at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 15:32:14 2010 From: jacek.antonelli at gmail.com (Jacek Antonelli) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:32:14 -0600 Subject: [sldev] SNOW-436: Optional text for payments to show up in transaction history Message-ID: <105c09f1001251532w4d2a95awfbb5d85107795035@mail.gmail.com> I've submitted a patch to SNOW-436 (formerly VWR-9597). Merov would like to have a discussion on SLDev about it, so... here it is. :) The patch adds a new text input field on the Pay Resident floater, where the user can type in a custom message that will appear in the transaction history. For example, you could type in "Rent for January" when paying your landlord, so they (and you) will know what the payment was for when looking at the transaction history later. The patch is very simple and requires no changes to the server side or protocol, because they already have support for such a message. The viewer was just leaving it empty in the case of paying a person directly. When buying or paying an object, the message was (and still is) set to the name of the object. I have set an arbitrary limit of 140 characters on the input field, but I didn't see any defined limit in the protocol, so that limit could be adjusted if desired. I believe there is minimal potential for abuse with this feature. The worst I could think of is tricking a merchant into thinking you bought/paid an object, by using the object's name as the message. If the merchant was not aware of this feature, and did not notice that the transaction type was "Gift" (instead of "Object Sale" or "Payment"), AND did not notice that the price paid was too little, then they might be convinced to give you a "replacement". To combat that, LL may want to consider formatting or styling the message differently for Gifts. LL should also publicize this change when it rolls out, so that merchants will be aware of it, and thus be less likely to be fooled. Currently, the patch does not cause the viewer to display the message when you receive a payment with a message, so the message is only displayed in the transaction history. But this would be a useful and natural enhancement to make, so if anyone feels like tackling that (it shouldn't be very hard), I would encourage them to do so. - Jacek From rusyasoft at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 17:29:49 2010 From: rusyasoft at gmail.com (Rustam Rakhimov) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:29:49 +0900 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> I think you didn't get my question. I wanna realize something like MS Paint program. LIke you will choose some paint brush then using this brush you will draw anything on BOX for example. And the main thing what I want is, to be available draw from any point, I mean from any angle you be allowed to draw. That's my GOAL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/0ba8136c/attachment.htm From lenglish5 at cox.net Mon Jan 25 22:39:07 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:39:07 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> Rustam Rakhimov wrote: > > > > I think you didn't get my question. > > I wanna realize something like MS Paint program. LIke you will choose > some paint brush then using this brush you will draw anything on BOX > for example. And the main thing what I want is, to be available draw > from any point, I mean from any angle you be allowed to draw. > > That's my GOAL > There are facilities for the media plugin to track mouse and keyboard input. I suspect they are based on the same internal viewer functions that send data to the touch functions in LSL. Getting them to work with the media plugin may be reasonably easy. The trick would be letting everyone else in a sim see them. Using LSL touch functions you can rez temp prims at various positions along the surface of the prim you are drawing on. The drawback is that it may take hundreds, or even a thousand or so prims to make a complicated drawing and much of it will be gone within a few seconds that you finish the drawing if not before, but at least everyone else can see them. An alternative method is to use a drawing app displayed on a webpage and let the user draw on the webpage. This requires the webkit media plugin to work and I'm not sure how reliable it is yet but everyone watching the webpage could see what is being drawn. Other alternatives would be some kind of VNC on a prim ala Aimee's Recursive Life demo. That goes back to the question of how to display the image for everyone else to see. My own [proposed] solution is to do some kind of VNC thing via a mediaplugin so that the lecturer/artist can have realtime control of what is drawing, and then rebroadcast it via streaming media. This would cause about a 10 second lag for the audience from what I have seen and from talking to people who use media streaming for lectures. There are no doubt more complicated and interesting strategies available. I'm hoping to get rendering from squeak smalltalk to media plugin working locally reasonably soon now. Getting it to the point where others can see it will be a lot more work, I suspect. I've got a few diagrams and examples of what people have already done/are trying to do listed on a wiki page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion Lawson From sempuki1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 22:46:50 2010 From: sempuki1 at gmail.com (Ryan McDougall) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:46:50 +0200 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> Message-ID: I think he's asking if there is any projection function that would automatically convert screen coordinates to local prim coordinates. Cheers, On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Lawson English wrote: > Rustam Rakhimov wrote: >> >> >> >> I think you didn't get my question. >> >> I wanna realize something like MS Paint program. LIke you will choose >> some paint brush then using this brush you will draw anything on BOX >> for example. And the main thing what I want is, to be available draw >> from any point, I mean from any angle you be allowed to draw. >> >> That's my GOAL >> > > There are facilities for the media plugin to track mouse and keyboard > input. I suspect they are based on the same internal viewer functions > that send data to the touch functions in LSL. Getting them to work with > the media plugin may be reasonably easy. The trick would be letting > everyone else in a sim see them. Using LSL touch functions you can rez > temp prims at various positions along the surface of the prim you are > drawing on. The drawback is that it may take hundreds, or even a > thousand or so prims to make a complicated drawing and much of it will > be gone within a few seconds that you finish the drawing if not before, > but at least everyone else can see them. > > An alternative method is to use a drawing app displayed on a webpage and > let the user draw on the webpage. This requires the webkit media plugin > to work and I'm not sure how reliable it is yet but everyone watching > the webpage could see what is being drawn. > > Other alternatives would be some kind of VNC on a prim ala Aimee's > Recursive Life demo. That goes back to the question of how to display > the image for everyone else to see. > > My own [proposed] solution is to do some kind of VNC thing via a > mediaplugin so that the lecturer/artist can have realtime control of > what is drawing, and then rebroadcast it via streaming media. This would > cause about a 10 second lag for the audience from what I have seen and > from talking to people who use media streaming for lectures. > > There are no doubt more complicated and interesting strategies > available. I'm hoping to get rendering from squeak smalltalk to media > plugin working locally reasonably soon now. Getting it to the point > where others can see it will be a lot more work, I suspect. > > I've got a few diagrams and examples of what people have already > done/are trying to do listed on a wiki page: > > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion > > > > Lawson > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From lenglish5 at cox.net Mon Jan 25 23:11:02 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:11:02 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B5E9586.90608@cox.net> Ryan McDougall wrote: > I think he's asking if there is any projection function that would > automatically convert screen coordinates to local prim coordinates. > > Cheers, > > I suspect that the viewer functions that help the LSL touch functions do this. Probably the control widgets for builders have much the same functionality (if they are not the same st of functions underneath it all). The Pupetteering code definitely could track the mouse on the avatar and render control widgets but I don't know how accurate it is. The media plugin SDK has a way of tracking mouse movements along a prim, but I'm not sure if its working yet or not. What he wants to do is certainly doable but I'm not sure how (yet). Lawson From tateru.nino at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 23:50:24 2010 From: tateru.nino at gmail.com (Tateru Nino) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:50:24 +1100 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5E9586.90608@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <4B5E9586.90608@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B5E9EC0.2030702@gmail.com> There's ray-casting functions in the code that essentially inverts the process of mapping 3D points within the frustum to 2D screen coordinates -- that handles object touching, selection and more. I'm not 100% sure where it is in the code, but virtually every mouse-click goes near it, from memory. On 26/01/2010 6:11 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Ryan McDougall wrote: > >> I think he's asking if there is any projection function that would >> automatically convert screen coordinates to local prim coordinates. >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> > I suspect that the viewer functions that help the LSL touch functions do > this. Probably the control widgets for builders have much the same > functionality (if they are not the same st of functions underneath it > all). The Pupetteering code definitely could track the mouse on the > avatar and render control widgets but I don't know how accurate it is. > > The media plugin SDK has a way of tracking mouse movements along a prim, > but I'm not sure if its working yet or not. > > What he wants to do is certainly doable but I'm not sure how (yet). > > Lawson > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > -- Tateru Nino http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ From nexiim at googlemail.com Tue Jan 26 00:58:45 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:58:45 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5E9EC0.2030702@gmail.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <4B5E9586.90608@cox.net> <4B5E9EC0.2030702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001260058k3e66c1e6u27297bfff4c64861@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zxU1khDXcU I can tell you more about this, been doing it for half a year. I think the pie tool is a good example. If you look under lltoolpie.cpp, you can see the execution go around. Although it is more ideal for slower asynchronous raycasting. On the other hand to raycast from the screen at once, you can do this: S32 face_hit = -1; LLVector3 intersection, normal, binormal; LLVector2 uv; LLViewerObject* hit_object = gViewerWindow->cursorIntersect(-1, -1, 512.f, NULL, -1, FALSE, FALSE, &face_hit, &intersection, &uv, &normal, &binormal); Or for raycasting from world coordinates of a segmented line. S32 face_hit = -1; LLVector3 intersection, normal, binormal, rayStart = {Start of your Ray}, rayEnd = {End of your Ray}; LLVector2 uv; LLViewerObject* hit_object = gPipeline.lineSegmentIntersectInWorld(rayStart, rayEnd, FALSE, FALSE, &face_hit, &intersection, &uv, &normal, &binormal); Before you go anywhere, you'll probably have to understand to get a better idea of how the tools work in the client, they are handled in a somewhat complex way. Depends what your goals are exactly, for a MSPaint-esque system, it might actually be much cheaper short-term to look into the media plugins really. - Nexii On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Tateru Nino wrote: > There's ray-casting functions in the code that essentially inverts the > process of mapping 3D points within the frustum to 2D screen coordinates > -- that handles object touching, selection and more. I'm not 100% sure > where it is in the code, but virtually every mouse-click goes near it, > from memory. > > On 26/01/2010 6:11 PM, Lawson English wrote: >> Ryan McDougall wrote: >> >>> I think he's asking if there is any projection function that would >>> automatically convert screen coordinates to local prim coordinates. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >> I suspect that the viewer functions that help the LSL touch functions do >> this. Probably the control widgets for builders have much the same >> functionality (if they are not the same st of functions underneath it >> all). The Pupetteering code definitely could track the mouse on the >> avatar and render control widgets but I don't know how accurate it is. >> >> The media plugin SDK has a way of tracking mouse movements along a prim, >> but I'm not sure if its working yet or not. >> >> What he wants to do is certainly doable but I'm not sure how (yet). >> >> Lawson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> >> > > -- > Tateru Nino > http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From rusyasoft at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 04:45:46 2010 From: rusyasoft at gmail.com (Rustam Rakhimov) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:45:46 +0900 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5E9586.90608@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <4B5E9586.90608@cox.net> Message-ID: <7600b1331001260445v512de94bxf6c34225c95a7f1d@mail.gmail.com> Lawson Thanks for advises how about talk about it more, and detaily I visited all links you gave, and I didn't find any information about code or function. Especially puppeteering, there is source code but I think not fully opened And I like your answer which gave me some hopes :) "What he wants to do is certainly doable but I'm not sure how (yet)." 2010/1/26 Lawson English > Ryan McDougall wrote: > >> I think he's asking if there is any projection function that would >> automatically convert screen coordinates to local prim coordinates. >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> > > I suspect that the viewer functions that help the LSL touch functions do > this. Probably the control widgets for builders have much the same > functionality (if they are not the same st of functions underneath it all). > The Pupetteering code definitely could track the mouse on the avatar and > render control widgets but I don't know how accurate it is. > > The media plugin SDK has a way of tracking mouse movements along a prim, > but I'm not sure if its working yet or not. > > What he wants to do is certainly doable but I'm not sure how (yet). > > Lawson > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/35fe7bbb/attachment-0001.htm From open at autistici.org Tue Jan 26 05:25:31 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:25:31 +0000 Subject: [sldev] =?utf-8?q?More_detailed_map_images=3A_possible=3F?= Message-ID: Would it be possible for Linden Lab to provide more detailed map images? let's say 5 or 10 times the current size (256x256 pixel) If possible at all, I guess it would be quite expensive to do that for the whole grid; but again, there may be a market for this feature. I think some users would pay a monthly fee for having a detailed map of their regions. Or, it could be a Premium-only feature. Why would I pay for a much more detailed map of my sim? Because it's a practical way to show *outside of Second Life* what's happening inside. You can automate its use, and you can embed it in your website. I do something similar at http://friendfeed.com/lolsl and I'd like a much bigger image of the sim. There are some great limitations (maps are only updated daily, or at least that's what happens to my LOL region) but I think there's a potential too. bye Opensource Obscure From mrfrans at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 07:11:07 2010 From: mrfrans at gmail.com (Frans) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:11:07 +0100 Subject: [sldev] SNOW-436: Optional text for payments to show up in transaction history In-Reply-To: <105c09f1001251532w4d2a95awfbb5d85107795035@mail.gmail.com> References: <105c09f1001251532w4d2a95awfbb5d85107795035@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7765f2c61001260711v6fe8c87eh3eb45911f7b8268f@mail.gmail.com> This looks like a very useful feature. +1 -Frans On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Jacek Antonelli wrote: > I've submitted a patch to SNOW-436 (formerly VWR-9597). Merov would > like to have a discussion on SLDev about it, so... here it is. :) > > The patch adds a new text input field on the Pay Resident floater, > where the user can type in a custom message that will appear in the > transaction history. For example, you could type in "Rent for January" > when paying your landlord, so they (and you) will know what the > payment was for when looking at the transaction history later. > > The patch is very simple and requires no changes to the server side or > protocol, because they already have support for such a message. The > viewer was just leaving it empty in the case of paying a person > directly. When buying or paying an object, the message was (and still > is) set to the name of the object. I have set an arbitrary limit of > 140 characters on the input field, but I didn't see any defined limit > in the protocol, so that limit could be adjusted if desired. > > I believe there is minimal potential for abuse with this feature. The > worst I could think of is tricking a merchant into thinking you > bought/paid an object, by using the object's name as the message. If > the merchant was not aware of this feature, and did not notice that > the transaction type was "Gift" (instead of "Object Sale" or > "Payment"), AND did not notice that the price paid was too little, > then they might be convinced to give you a "replacement". To combat > that, LL may want to consider formatting or styling the message > differently for Gifts. LL should also publicize this change when it > rolls out, so that merchants will be aware of it, and thus be less > likely to be fooled. > > Currently, the patch does not cause the viewer to display the message > when you receive a payment with a message, so the message is only > displayed in the transaction history. But this would be a useful and > natural enhancement to make, so if anyone feels like tackling that (it > shouldn't be very hard), I would encourage them to do so. > > - Jacek > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -- Jeroen Frans Virtual World Technology Specialist. TheVesuviusGroup.com SL: Frans Charming -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/2e96c50a/attachment.htm From stickman at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 08:03:42 2010 From: stickman at gmail.com (Stickman) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:03:42 -0800 Subject: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > There are some great limitations (maps are only > updated daily, or at least that's what happens to > my LOL region) but I think there's a potential too. Regarding world map textures. Back in mid 2008 I submitted a support ticket asking some questions about how the world map works. Molly Linden replied with the following information: --- 1. The maximum height that the world map captures a region at is approx. 450 meters up. This means the world map will show anything below that height, and will not show anything above that height. If there's a build etc that you do not want showing on the world map image of the region, its best to build it above 450m (usually 500m or higher is best). 2. What it captures: Generally the world map will capture an object's shape and overall color/tint. Details like exact textures on objects usually aren't captured unless they're of such a large size that they would take up roughly a quarter of the region or more on their own (i.e. large enough so that the world map would show the detail of the texture instead of just the overall color). Most of the time this translates into roads, tops of buildings, etc. being displayed on the map. 3. The world map for a region is updated roughly every two weeks, which is the length of time for the system to update every region on the grid once before starting over again. --- This information is now about a year and a half old, and may not longer be completely accurate. Unless their system changed, I suspect it now takes a bit longer than two weeks to update every region on the grid before starting over again. Also, a week or two ago I tried putting a 256x256x1 prim at around 400m. It did capture it, but did not capture the texture on it, rendering a big flat grey prim instead. -Stickman From kelly at lindenlab.com Tue Jan 26 08:34:19 2010 From: kelly at lindenlab.com (Kelly Linden) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:34:19 -0800 Subject: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Stickman wrote: > 2. ?What it captures: Generally the world map will capture an object's > shape and overall color/tint. Details like exact textures on objects > usually aren't captured unless they're of such a large size that they > would take up roughly a quarter of the region or more on their own > (i.e. large enough so that the world map would show the detail of the > texture instead of just the overall color). Most of the time this > translates into roads, tops of buildings, etc. being displayed on the > map. > Also, a week or two ago I tried putting a 256x256x1 prim at around > 400m. It did capture it, but did not capture the texture on it, > rendering a big flat grey prim instead. > > -Stickman I believe you were misinformed on the texture point. The world map will never show an actual texture, but only the average color for the face. It does not matter how big the object is. The system has been rewritten since 2008 and is much quicker now but I do not know how often it updates. I've seen a region or two with fancy huge date/time objects to show on the map when the tile was last updated. That may be the simplest way to know. I do not believe huge map tiles is something we have really considered or have planned. - Kelly From I_really_needed_a_new_mailbox at gmx.de Tue Jan 26 08:46:41 2010 From: I_really_needed_a_new_mailbox at gmx.de (Zai Lynch) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:46:41 +0100 Subject: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd like to point out that the current map is displaying colors and shapes incorrectly. That is not so much of an issue, though in case it would be considered to create map tiles in higher resolution (maybe even as payed service, as suggested), then this would need to be addressed. The related JIRA issue is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4037 --zai -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/b526a053/attachment.htm From mrfrans at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 08:51:32 2010 From: mrfrans at gmail.com (Frans) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:51:32 +0100 Subject: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7765f2c61001260851o66cfad3dte4d86332b29768bc@mail.gmail.com> > I've seen a region or two with > fancy huge date/time objects to show on the map when the tile was last > updated. That may be the simplest way to know. > Yea I used to do that. -- Jeroen Frans Virtual World Technology Specialist. TheVesuviusGroup.com SL: Frans Charming -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/ed3c288c/attachment.htm From open at autistici.org Tue Jan 26 09:08:08 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:08:08 +0000 Subject: [sldev] =?utf-8?q?More_detailed_map_images=3A_possible=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:03:42 -0800, Stickman wrote: > Unless their system changed, I suspect it now takes a bit longer than > two weeks to update every region on the grid before starting over > again. I don't know about the rest of the grid, but it looks like my private region is updated daily - here's an animated GIF, made with the map textures from the last 10 days http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8226/201001.gif huge thanks to everyone for your informative replies! ciao, opensource obscure From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Tue Jan 26 09:25:08 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:25:08 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Questions on the media plugin; was: Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B5F2574.6010503@fishkill.ibm.com> My understanding of the media plugin is that it provides functionality similar to a browser plugin. It can display on either an internal browser window or on the parcel media texture, but only the local viewer sees it on the parcel media. It's not clear to me whether it must be streamed to parcel media to appear on the parcel media texture, though. So it seems to me that as far as drawing on prims, the only advantage it offers over an external web application is that you can indicate points on the texture displayed on a prim surface as it would be seen. I see a lot of people suggesting that the media plugin can add a lot of functionality beyond an external web app, but I don't see how. Am I misunderstanding this? Mike Lawson English wrote: > Rustam Rakhimov wrote: > >> >> >>I think you didn't get my question. >> >>I wanna realize something like MS Paint program. LIke you will choose >>some paint brush then using this brush you will draw anything on BOX >>for example. And the main thing what I want is, to be available draw >>from any point, I mean from any angle you be allowed to draw. >> >>That's my GOAL >> > > > There are facilities for the media plugin to track mouse and keyboard > input. I suspect they are based on the same internal viewer functions > that send data to the touch functions in LSL. Getting them to work with > the media plugin may be reasonably easy. The trick would be letting > everyone else in a sim see them. Using LSL touch functions you can rez > temp prims at various positions along the surface of the prim you are > drawing on. The drawback is that it may take hundreds, or even a > thousand or so prims to make a complicated drawing and much of it will > be gone within a few seconds that you finish the drawing if not before, > but at least everyone else can see them. > > An alternative method is to use a drawing app displayed on a webpage and > let the user draw on the webpage. This requires the webkit media plugin > to work and I'm not sure how reliable it is yet but everyone watching > the webpage could see what is being drawn. > > Other alternatives would be some kind of VNC on a prim ala Aimee's > Recursive Life demo. That goes back to the question of how to display > the image for everyone else to see. > > My own [proposed] solution is to do some kind of VNC thing via a > mediaplugin so that the lecturer/artist can have realtime control of > what is drawing, and then rebroadcast it via streaming media. This would > cause about a 10 second lag for the audience from what I have seen and > from talking to people who use media streaming for lectures. > > There are no doubt more complicated and interesting strategies > available. I'm hoping to get rendering from squeak smalltalk to media > plugin working locally reasonably soon now. Getting it to the point > where others can see it will be a lot more work, I suspect. > > I've got a few diagrams and examples of what people have already > done/are trying to do listed on a wiki page: > > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion > > > > Lawson From garmin.kawaguichi at magalaxie.com Tue Jan 26 12:36:35 2010 From: garmin.kawaguichi at magalaxie.com (Garmin Kawaguichi) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:36:35 +0100 Subject: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? References: Message-ID: The map of Furvata (Mainland) is "photographed" once a day around 8:35 GMT but it was displayed about 36 hours later. How do I know that? Watch Furvata map, and you will understand!!!! GCI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Linden" Subject: Re: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? > The system has been rewritten since 2008 and is much quicker now but I > do not know how often it updates. I've seen a region or two with > fancy huge date/time objects to show on the map when the tile was last > updated. That may be the simplest way to know. From merov at lindenlab.com Tue Jan 26 14:09:32 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:09:32 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> Message-ID: <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Lawson English wrote: > There are facilities for the media plugin to track mouse and keyboard > input. [...] Getting them to work with > the media plugin may be reasonably easy. There is an example plug in in indra/test_apps/llplugintest called demo_media_plugin_2.cpp . It does track mouse movement on the media prim and draw "? la Paint" on it. It's primitive but it's a demo. I tried it some months ago and it worked fine then, I haven't tried recently I need to confess. The trick would be letting > everyone else in a sim see them. Yes, that's the problem: if you're trying to get a user to paint in a texture IW for his/her own enjoyment and profit (may be saving and uploading the texture), mediaplugin should be fine. If you're trying to do collaborative painting, that's another story. There's no mechanism to p2p share the texture built in, though, as I'm saying this, I'm realizing that creating such a plugin should be possible (see Aimee's VNC plugin demo for an example of p2p texture sharing). > Other alternatives would be some kind of VNC on a prim ala Aimee's > Recursive Life demo. That goes back to the question of how to display > the image for everyone else to see. > May be Aimee could share some insights here. For sure, a collaborative p2p paint plugin would be a pretty cool plugin! Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/ba8d33d2/attachment.htm From open at autistici.org Tue Jan 26 14:35:11 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:35:11 +0000 Subject: [sldev] =?utf-8?q?More_detailed_map_images=3A_possible=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ca407a82cdb197cb0d2ab31886e10c@localhost> I got the suggestion to add some more details. Map API documentation page http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Map_API current Map API was released on Jan 15, 2009 Philip's post http://blog.secondlife.com/2009/01/22/improvements-to-mapping-and-upgrade-to-slurlcom/ some excerpts from the wiki page: The map generation process is more scalable than the previous release, and is able to image the entire Second Life grid of about 30,000 regions in less than two days. There is a "decay period" for offline regions. If a region is disabled, the tile will stay up for several days (in case it comes back or something else has gone wrong) before the tile disappears. That several-day period will be longer than the time it takes to update existing regions or put new regions on the map. Map images are updated more accurately and rapidly. Changes to the Second Life Grid or content will now be visible within about two days. Map images look smoother and are more accurate when compared to the actual in-world content. bye opensource obscure From merov at lindenlab.com Tue Jan 26 14:39:06 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:39:06 -0800 Subject: [sldev] More detailed map images: possible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78f69851001261439y7cc75b08x6ea7855050119192@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Thanks Kelly for the answer. Yes, the map rendering was rewritten a year ago by yours truly and some other Lindens. Quite a few things changed since 2008: On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Stickman wrote: > --- > 1. The maximum height that the world map captures a region at is > approx. 450 meters up. This means the world map will show anything > below that height, and will not show anything above that height. If > there's a build etc that you do not want showing on the world map > image of the region, its best to build it above 450m (usually 500m or > higher is best). > This is still true. We haven't touched this parameter. > 2. What it captures: Generally the world map will capture an object's > shape and overall color/tint. Details like exact textures on objects > usually aren't captured unless they're of such a large size that they > would take up roughly a quarter of the region or more on their own > (i.e. large enough so that the world map would show the detail of the > texture instead of just the overall color). Most of the time this > translates into roads, tops of buildings, etc. being displayed on the > map. > Incorrect: all textures are assumed to be seen from far above enough as to be average as 1 color, irrespective of their size and scaling. As the goal is to rerender the map for the *whole grid* daily (see below), we cannot fetch and decompress all the full sized textures every day (yikes!). We take full advantage of the jpeg2000 wavelet properties here to read as little as possible and still get a correct average color (modulo Zay's bug apparently). > 3. The world map for a region is updated roughly every two weeks, > which is the length of time for the system to update every region on > the grid once before starting over again. > Incorrect: it's now updated daily. There's a bit of smarts though to avoid rerendering regions that had no change at all. As some smart residents noticed, there is however a delay between texture computation and posting. This is because the map rendering does now something new: it stitches the regions 2x2 and computes sampled zoomed out tiles and repeats that process in a pyramidal scheme all the way out, effectively building a gigantic grid size mipmap. This is what makes the zoom so fast now. Couple of other things new with that map: - it computes only "objects" tiles, no "terrain" tiles: this is to merge the webapp (slurl) map experience and the IW viewer map experience. Also "terrain" was not extremely helpful in heavily built regions. - tiles are stored on Amazon S3, outside the asset server then, reducing load there - IW and webapp use the same tiles : so no more inconsistencies here Back to OObscure original question: would it be possible to get higher res maps for some regions? Hmmm.... From a rendering standpoint, that's easy but that would require a change in the scheme used to store tiles (adding a new layer to the gigantic mipmap) and a change in the viewer code map to get those tiles. We wouldn't do that wholesale though for the whole grid: storing all this data has a cost and we went through quite a bit of computation (balancing cost, speed, usability) before setting on that 256x256 pixels value. Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/20b41c2e/attachment.htm From lenglish5 at cox.net Tue Jan 26 16:32:14 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:32:14 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B5F898E.3030104@cox.net> Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Lawson English > wrote: > > There are facilities for the media plugin to track mouse and keyboard > input. [...] Getting them to work with > the media plugin may be reasonably easy. > > > There is an example plug in in indra/test_apps/llplugintest called > demo_media_plugin_2.cpp . It does track mouse movement on the media > prim and draw "? la Paint" on it. It's primitive but it's a demo. I > tried it some months ago and it worked fine then, I haven't tried > recently I need to confess. > > The trick would be letting > everyone else in a sim see them. > > > Yes, that's the problem: if you're trying to get a user to paint in a > texture IW for his/her own enjoyment and profit (may be saving and > uploading the texture), mediaplugin should be fine. If you're trying > to do collaborative painting, that's another story. There's no > mechanism to p2p share the texture built in, though, as I'm saying > this, I'm realizing that creating such a plugin should be possible > (see Aimee's VNC plugin demo for an example of p2p texture sharing). > > > Other alternatives would be some kind of VNC on a prim ala Aimee's > Recursive Life demo. That goes back to the question of how to display > the image for everyone else to see. > > > May be Aimee could share some insights here. > > For sure, a collaborative p2p paint plugin would be a pretty cool plugin! > > Cheers, > - Merov > Once I understand the TeaTime stuff a bit better (JUST a "bit") it should be possible to share literally any kind of updates p2p between squeak/cobalt plugins. All TObjects have connections to the TeaTime collaboration architecture built into them and if I'm reading the wiki correctly, teatime is actually responsible for updating the local object as well as the remote clients, so if it works properly with the local drawing board, it should with 2 people. And if it works with 2, it should with arbitrary n once they establish a connection. I think it automatically shares the current state of the object upon login, so everyone should literally be on the same page, after the connection is established. http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/System_Overview http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/TeaTime_Architecture#TeaTime_Overview Lawson From lenglish5 at cox.net Tue Jan 26 16:49:37 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:49:37 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B5F898E.3030104@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> <4B5F898E.3030104@cox.net> Message-ID: <4B5F8DA1.9020600@cox.net> Lawson English wrote: > > Once I understand the TeaTime stuff a bit better (JUST a "bit") it > should be possible to share literally any kind of updates p2p between > squeak/cobalt plugins. All TObjects have connections to the TeaTime > collaboration architecture built into them and if I'm reading the wiki > correctly, teatime is actually responsible for updating the local object > as well as the remote clients, so if it works properly with the local > drawing board, it should with 2 people. And if it works with 2, it > should with arbitrary n once they establish a connection. I think it > automatically shares the current state of the object upon login, so > everyone should literally be on the same page, after the connection is > established. > > http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/System_Overview > http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/TeaTime_Architecture#TeaTime_Overview > > To clarify, TeaTime handles distribution between TObjects. Croquet is a 3D world built of TObjects. If, instead of a 3D world, you create a 2D Whiteboard out of TOBjects and keep the appropriate network stuff available, TeaTime will happily serve updates about 2D drawing boards to other clients instead of/in addition to, 3D virtual worlds. My first order approximation of it is that TeaTime is a P2P server infrastructure where every smalltalk object based on a TObject becomes a nano-server embedded within the system. Tell YOUR cube to rotate, and everyone else's does. Tell YOUR drawing board to draw a line from A to B, and everyone else's gets the same drawing message. It is built into the TObject class (which could be made the base class for any other smalltalk class) which means, in principle, any smalltalk class/container/thingie could be a distributed object. Hook these TObjects up to a SL plugin and you have instant (I hope) P2P between SL clients for any conceivable tool, leaving aside network lag and VM speed issues. If users don't want pure P2P, a GUI-less smalltalk server could act as the hosting client and simply forward messages to everyone else. All drawing and other input would then be done by the "guests" rather than the host and security shouldn't be an issue in that situation since no-one but the adminstrator has access to the underlying smalltalk installation. see http://www.seaside.st for an example of how smalltalk can act like a normal web server (nothing to do with TeaTime/Cobalt, just to show that it can be reasonably speedy as a server). Lawson From merov at lindenlab.com Tue Jan 26 19:13:49 2010 From: merov at lindenlab.com (Philippe (Merov) Bossut) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:13:49 -0800 Subject: [sldev] Hippo meeting this week: moved to Friday Message-ID: <78f69851001261913l26b28ba8ic531327d1d63df17@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys, I and most of my fellow Lindens will be locked in meetings for the next 2 days (January 27th and 28th) so Thursday Hippo meeting needs to be reported. I'm proposing to held it on Friday (January 29th), same time (2pm PST), same place (Hippotropolis theater). See you there! Cheers, - Merov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100126/7ce66a0f/attachment-0001.htm From neil at knowsense.co.uk Wed Jan 27 05:53:59 2010 From: neil at knowsense.co.uk (Neil Canham) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:53:59 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Distribution of drawing/painting (was Mouse on 3D Objects) Message-ID: <2867.1264600439@knowsense.co.uk> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }This distribution is already half possible with the existing HTML-on-a-prim - javascript-based shared whiteboards like http://www.twiddla.com [1] and http://www.skrbl.com [2] (there are others) already distribute drawing events to all connected clients. Point your parcel mdeia URL at a twiddla board and you will see live updates from all browser-based users. I've used this to play 'pictionary' in world which I thoroughly recommend :-) So to complete the picture I'm really hoping that the new browser plugin will allow mouse / keyboard interaction with the 3D surface, and then there would be no need for the 2D browser to be used for the input side of this. So will / does the new WebKit-based plugin accept keyboard/mouse input from the actual 3D surface without opening a 2D browser? And if so, how is focus going to be managed? Links: ------ [1] http://www.twiddla.com [2] http://www.skrbl.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100127/3f02e0d1/attachment.htm From aimee.trescothick at gmail.com Wed Jan 27 06:40:51 2010 From: aimee.trescothick at gmail.com (Aimee Trescothick) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:40:51 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 26 Jan 2010, at 22:09, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote: > Yes, that's the problem: if you're trying to get a user to paint in a texture IW for his/her own enjoyment and profit (may be saving and uploading the texture), mediaplugin should be fine. If you're trying to do collaborative painting, that's another story. There's no mechanism to p2p share the texture built in, though, as I'm saying this, I'm realizing that creating such a plugin should be possible (see Aimee's VNC plugin demo for an example of p2p texture sharing). > > Other alternatives would be some kind of VNC on a prim ala Aimee's > Recursive Life demo. That goes back to the question of how to display > the image for everyone else to see. > > May be Aimee could share some insights here. > > For sure, a collaborative p2p paint plugin would be a pretty cool plugin! The easiest and most versatile way to do this is almost certainly to use the existing Webkit plugin, by providing the application as a web service that you could place on a prim like any other webpage, with synchronisation being handled by the web server in the same way as things like http://etherpad.com/ As a generic web service you are then not limited to using it only in-world, you could open the same webpage on your iPhone or whatever and have what you draw appear directly on the prim in SL. Once you've finished, save the image and upload it to SL for permanent use. You'd want to arrange it so that the 'canvas' fills the entire page/prim-face, so painting tool changes and commands would need to be handled either all with key shortcuts, or maybe just have a key shortcut to show and hide a tool palette over the canvas. Alternately by placing the tool palette UI on another web page, you could show that in a browser window keeping it visible at the same time. You could also do it via VNC, grafting libVNCServer onto the front of a custom painting package (there's a very simple example of this that comes with libVNCServer), and then use a VNC plugin to display its output and interact with it in-world, though that probably isn't as scaleable as the web based solution. It would be harder to allow people to interact with it simultaneously as input from all observers would be tied together, whereas with the web version could more easily allow different users to use different tools at the same time for example. Some standard VNC servers will let you assign a single window to transmit, which should allow you to place an actual Photoshop canvas on a prim, but that then has the problem of how you access the rest of the application's UI, you could maybe use it just to paint on the prim while using the rest of the UI directly, but that pretty much limits interaction to the host, unless you want to go crazy and set up separate VNC channels for the tool palettes as well :D Aimee. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100127/4a9becb3/attachment.htm From monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com Wed Jan 27 11:10:25 2010 From: monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com (Mike Monkowski) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:10:25 -0500 Subject: [sldev] Distribution of drawing/painting (was Mouse on 3D Objects) In-Reply-To: <2867.1264600439@knowsense.co.uk> References: <2867.1264600439@knowsense.co.uk> Message-ID: <4B608FA1.3020909@fishkill.ibm.com> Neil Canham wrote: > So will / does the > new WebKit-based plugin accept keyboard/mouse input from the actual 3D > surface without opening a 2D browser? My understanding is that it is only possible if the 3D surface uses the parcel media texture, and then the keyboard/mouse information is sent only to your own plugin process. Mike From neil at knowsense.co.uk Wed Jan 27 11:20:10 2010 From: neil at knowsense.co.uk (Neil Canham) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:20:10 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Distribution of drawing/painting (was Mouse on 3D Objects) Message-ID: <50305.1264620010@knowsense.co.uk> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Mike - that is exactly what I would expect. Each surface displaying the media texture even now is displaying a rendered view of a browser running on that client. Hence sending mouse/keyboard to that in-memory plugin/browser instance on just your cliient is identical to having a browser open and clciking/typing in it. Just happening on your machine. And then through the javascript engines and server side code behind the drawing packages the resulting drawing events / vectors/objects are distributed to the other browsers (media textures) showing the same web page. My question is an always has been about if this is really going to be part of the plan - capturing mouse/keyboard for a media textured prim surface without opening a flat 2D window, and if so how will focus be managed? On Wed 27/01/10 7:10 PM , Mike Monkowski monkowsk at fishkill.ibm.com sent: Neil Canham wrote: > So will / does the > new WebKit-based plugin accept keyboard/mouse input from the actual 3D > surface without opening a 2D browser? My understanding is that it is only possible if the 3D surface uses the parcel media texture, and then the keyboard/mouse information is sent only to your own plugin process. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100127/91c34718/attachment.htm From thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com Wed Jan 27 13:41:24 2010 From: thickbrick.sleaford at gmail.com (Thickbrick Sleaford) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:41:24 +0200 Subject: [sldev] Distribution of drawing/painting (was Mouse on 3D Objects) In-Reply-To: <50305.1264620010@knowsense.co.uk> References: <50305.1264620010@knowsense.co.uk> Message-ID: <201001272341.24555.thickbrick.sleaford@gmail.com> On Wednesday 27 January 2010 21:20:10 Neil Canham wrote: > My question is an always has > been about if this is really going to be part of the plan - capturing > mouse/keyboard for a media textured prim surface without opening a > flat 2D window, and if so how will focus be managed? > If you look in Snowglobe (starting form 1.2), you can see a partial implementation of this in newview/llviewermediafocus.(cpp|h) and parts in newview/lltoolpie.(cpp|h). This is presumably fully implemented in viewer 2.0. To try it, activate the MediaOnAPrimUI debug setting, and click a media prim. It handles zooming/moving the camera so that the media face is orthogonal to the camera, showing some HUD controls around the prim, and capturing keyboard and mouse events. The version in Snowglobe is not fully working: mouse clicks won't work and focus management is broken. But hovering your mouse over some active html content will show that hover events are processed, and if you click carefully enough, keyboard events will be passed too (so you are able to browse the web by typing into google and tabbing to the right link.) -- Thickbrick From carlo at alinoe.com Thu Jan 28 04:43:43 2010 From: carlo at alinoe.com (Carlo Wood) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:43:43 +0100 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100128124343.GA16238@alinoe.com> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 02:40:51PM +0000, Aimee Trescothick wrote: > The easiest and most versatile way to do this is almost certainly to use the > existing Webkit plugin, by providing the application as a web service that you > could place on a prim like any other webpage, with synchronisation being > handled by the web server in the same way as things like http://etherpad.com/ > As a generic web service you are then not limited to using it only in-world, > you could open the same webpage on your iPhone or whatever and have what you > draw appear directly on the prim in SL. Once you've finished, save the image > and upload it to SL for permanent use. It's not that straight forward if you want to be able to draw on the prim. The most interesting application of this is drawing clothes and skins directly onto the avatar. That will require *new* code to convert mouse position and direction into pixel coordinates and intensity of the underlaying texture(s). -- Carlo Wood From lenglish5 at cox.net Thu Jan 28 08:33:12 2010 From: lenglish5 at cox.net (Lawson English) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:33:12 -0700 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <20100128124343.GA16238@alinoe.com> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> <20100128124343.GA16238@alinoe.com> Message-ID: <4B61BC48.2040800@cox.net> Carlo Wood wrote: > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 02:40:51PM +0000, Aimee Trescothick wrote: > >> The easiest and most versatile way to do this is almost certainly to use the >> existing Webkit plugin, by providing the application as a web service that you >> could place on a prim like any other webpage, with synchronisation being >> handled by the web server in the same way as things like http://etherpad.com/ >> As a generic web service you are then not limited to using it only in-world, >> you could open the same webpage on your iPhone or whatever and have what you >> draw appear directly on the prim in SL. Once you've finished, save the image >> and upload it to SL for permanent use. >> > > It's not that straight forward if you want to be able to draw on the prim. > The most interesting application of this is drawing clothes and skins > directly onto the avatar. That will require *new* code to convert mouse position > and direction into pixel coordinates and intensity of the underlaying > texture(s). > > Which goes back to questions of user-interface and feedback. It would be relatively straightforward (in comparison at least) to place a proxy of your avi in a complicated 3D painting/modeling app, and work on it in the regular GUI of the 3D app. The changes are just echoed on the avatar "in-world" (as displayed locally by your client). Ideally, the interface should actually be part of the client's interface, as it is for the SL building tools, but that's going to require a lot of thought. Its theoretically doable, as the puppeteering code shows, but creating a robust 3D widget toolkit for the client that can be manipulated by a plugin is going to be an interesting task. Lawson From nexiim at googlemail.com Fri Jan 29 00:37:12 2010 From: nexiim at googlemail.com (Nexii Malthus) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:37:12 +0000 Subject: [sldev] Mouse on 3D object In-Reply-To: <4B61BC48.2040800@cox.net> References: <7600b1331001250652s685f0a5aq5d3cecf5da5b776a@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001250829l41b4f6act6bda967c5ca47d4e@mail.gmail.com> <7600b1331001251729l3094611dld52bd480457b67c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B5E8E0B.4050804@cox.net> <78f69851001261409t327cd245ia6cb188ad63b9e5d@mail.gmail.com> <20100128124343.GA16238@alinoe.com> <4B61BC48.2040800@cox.net> Message-ID: <824c8ab71001290037p47a61874l9d71237f7fb7fd8f@mail.gmail.com> I'd love to attempt at it, but the main barrier to me is the way the whole tools system works is, very, confusing. Regarding the way a tool is selected, removed and what the whole 'transience' stuff is really about. If only that were to be more easily understood the task from then on would be a lot easier than you think. - Nexii On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Carlo Wood wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 02:40:51PM +0000, Aimee Trescothick wrote: >> >>> The easiest and most versatile way to do this is almost certainly to use the >>> existing Webkit plugin, by providing the application as a web service that you >>> could place on a prim like any other webpage, with synchronisation being >>> handled by the web server in the same way as things like http://etherpad.com/ >>> As a generic web service you are then not limited to using it only in-world, >>> you could open the same webpage on your iPhone or whatever and have what you >>> draw appear directly on the prim in SL. Once you've finished, save the image >>> and upload it to SL for permanent use. >>> >> >> It's not that straight forward if you want to be able to draw on the prim. >> The most interesting application of this is drawing clothes and skins >> directly onto the avatar. That will require *new* code to convert mouse position >> and direction into pixel coordinates and intensity of the underlaying >> texture(s). >> >> > Which goes back to questions of user-interface and feedback. > > It would be relatively straightforward (in comparison at least) to place > a proxy of your avi in a complicated 3D painting/modeling app, and work > on it in the regular GUI of the 3D app. The changes are just echoed on > the avatar "in-world" (as displayed locally by your client). Ideally, > the interface should actually be part of the client's interface, as it > is for the SL building tools, but that's going to require a lot of > thought. Its theoretically doable, as the puppeteering code shows, but > creating a robust 3D widget toolkit for the client that can be > manipulated by a plugin is going to be an interesting task. > > > Lawson > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > From robertltux at gmail.com Sat Jan 30 14:30:35 2010 From: robertltux at gmail.com (Robert Martin) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:30:35 -0500 Subject: [sldev] avatar /clothing editor Message-ID: Ive been doing a bit of research into how the avatar and clothing mesh functions work together and since a few of the 3PVs allow you to export and then import and xml file i was thinking and it seems possible to make a nonviewer program that will correctly edit this exported file (basically the same file that you get when you use the avatar to xml function) but i don't have the chops to do a program. Does anybody on list want to take on the challenge?? i have gotten a source file beaten into a more or less readable CVS file with the parameters and i have a set of named tint colors to work with in another CVS file and an example xml export to play with Note this would not need any kind of manikin to show the avatar this would just be a text with colors and texture swatches program (unless we could get a 3d view "for free") -- Robert L Martin From sageallen0 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 31 04:33:20 2010 From: sageallen0 at yahoo.com (Sage Allen) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:33:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sldev] [HELP] Unresolved external symbols Message-ID: <452861.52007.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I am attempting to compile the latest version of Snowglobe in VC90 for the first time. I have managed to narrow down all problems related to Boost libraries, but there seems to be one group of nagging errors that I don't quite follow. Any help would be appreciated. 1>------ Build started: Project: secondlife-bin, Configuration: RelWithDebInfo Win32 ------ 1>Setting the secondlife-bin working directory for debugging. 1>Editing solution: C:/source/linden/indra/build-VC90/SecondLife.sln 1>Looking for existing VisualStudio instance... 1> Didn't find open solution, starting new background VisualStudio instance... 1> Reading .sln file version... 1> Using version: VC90... 1>Value cannot be null. 1>Parameter name: type 1>Quitting do to error opening: C:\source\linden\indra\build-VC90\SecondLife.sln 1>Verifying message template 1>master: http://secondlife.com/app/message_template/master_message_template.msg 1>current: C:\source\linden\scripts\messages\message_template.msg 1>--- PASS --- 1>Older 1> in message DirPopularReply: is less deprecated: NotDeprecated vs. Deprecated in base 1> in message DirPopularQueryBackend: is less deprecated: NotDeprecated vs. Deprecated in base 1> in message ViewerStats: is less deprecated: NotDeprecated vs. UDPDeprecated in base 1> missing message LinkInventoryItem, did you mean to deprecate? 1> in message DataHomeLocationRequest: missing 1 extra blocks 1> in message OpenCircuit: is less deprecated: NotDeprecated vs. UDPBlackListed in base 1> in message ChildAgentUpdate: missing 2 extra blocks 1> in message DirPopularQuery: is less deprecated: NotDeprecated vs. Deprecated in base 1> in message RequestParcelTransfer: missing 1 extra blocks 1> 1>C:\source\linden\indra\lib\python\indra\ipc\llmessage.py:29: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated 1> from sets import Set, ImmutableSet 1>Linking... 1> Creating library C:\source\linden\indra\build-VC90\newview\RelWithDebInfo\secondlife-bin.lib and object C:\source\linden\indra\build-VC90\newview\RelWithDebInfo\secondlife-bin.exp 1>llui.lib(llnotifications.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: class boost::basic_regex > > & __thiscall boost::basic_regex > >::do_assign(char const *,char const *,unsigned int)" (?do_assign@?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@AAEAAV12 at PBD0I@Z) 1>llfeaturemanager.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "private: class boost::basic_regex > > & __thiscall boost::basic_regex > >::do_assign(char const *,char const *,unsigned int)" (?do_assign@?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@AAEAAV12 at PBD0I@Z) referenced in function "public: class boost::basic_regex > > & __thiscall boost::basic_regex > >::assign(char const *,char const *,unsigned int)" (?assign@?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@QAEAAV12 at PBD0I@Z) 1>llfloaterpostcard.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: class boost::basic_regex > > & __thiscall boost::basic_regex > >::do_assign(char const *,char const *,unsigned int)" (?do_assign@?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@AAEAAV12 at PBD0I@Z) 1>llgroupmgr.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: class boost::basic_regex > > & __thiscall boost::basic_regex > >::do_assign(char const *,char const *,unsigned int)" (?do_assign@?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@AAEAAV12 at PBD0I@Z) 1>llpaneldisplay.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: class boost::basic_regex > > & __thiscall boost::basic_regex > >::do_assign(char const *,char const *,unsigned int)" (?do_assign@?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@AAEAAV12 at PBD0I@Z) 1>llfeaturemanager.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: bool __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::find(void)" (?find@?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE_NXZ) referenced in function "bool __cdecl boost::regex_search,class std::allocator >,char,struct boost::regex_traits > >(class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >,class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >,class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (??$regex_search at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@YA_NV?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@0ABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@0 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 0@@Z) 1>llui.lib(llnotifications.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: bool __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::find(void)" (?find@?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE_NXZ) 1>llfeaturemanager.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "private: void __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::construct_init(class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (?construct_init@?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@AAEXABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@3 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 3@@Z) referenced in function "public: __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >(class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >,class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >,class boost::match_results,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > > > &,class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags,class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >)" (??0?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@0AAV?$match_results at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2@@2 at ABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@2 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 2@0 at Z) 1>llfloaterpostcard.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: void __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::construct_init(class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (?construct_init@?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@AAEXABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@3 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 3@@Z) 1>llui.lib(llnotifications.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: void __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::construct_init(class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (?construct_init@?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@AAEXABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@3 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 3@@Z) 1>llfloaterpostcard.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: bool __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::match(void)" (?match@?$perl_matcher at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE_NXZ) referenced in function "bool __cdecl boost::regex_match,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > >,char,struct boost::regex_traits > >(class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >,class std::_String_const_iterator,class std::allocator >,class boost::match_results,class std::allocator >,class std::allocator,class std::allocator > > > > &,class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (??$regex_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2 at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@YA_NV?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@0AAV?$match_results at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@V?$allocator at U?$sub_match at V?$_String_const_iterator at DU?$char_traits at D@std@@V?$allocator at D@2@@std@@@boost@@@2@@0 at ABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@0 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 0@@Z) 1>llgroupmgr.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: bool __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::match(void)" (?match@?$perl_matcher at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE_NXZ) referenced in function "bool __cdecl boost::regex_match >,char,struct boost::regex_traits > >(char const *,char const *,class boost::match_results > > &,class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (??$regex_match at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@boost@@YA_NPBD0AAV?$match_results at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@@0 at ABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@0 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 0@@Z) 1>llpaneldisplay.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: bool __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::match(void)" (?match@?$perl_matcher at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE_NXZ) 1>llgroupmgr.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "private: void __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::construct_init(class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (?construct_init@?$perl_matcher at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@AAEXABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@3 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 3@@Z) referenced in function "public: __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::perl_matcher >,struct boost::regex_traits > >(char const *,char const *,class boost::match_results > > &,class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags,char const *)" (??0?$perl_matcher at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@QAE at PBD0AAV?$match_results at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@@2 at ABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@2 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 2@0 at Z) 1>llpaneldisplay.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "private: void __thiscall boost::re_detail::perl_matcher >,struct boost::regex_traits > >::construct_init(class boost::basic_regex > > const &,enum boost::regex_constants::_match_flags)" (?construct_init@?$perl_matcher at PBDV?$allocator at U?$sub_match at PBD@boost@@@std@@U?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@re_detail at boost@@AAEXABV?$basic_regex at DU?$regex_traits at DV?$w32_regex_traits at D@boost@@@boost@@@3 at W4_match_flags@regex_constants at 3@@Z) 1>C:\source\linden\indra\build-VC90\newview\RelWithDebInfo\secondlife-bin.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 6 unresolved externals 1>Build log was saved at "file://c:\source\linden\indra\build-VC90\newview\secondlife-bin.dir\RelWithDebInfo\BuildLog.htm" 1>secondlife-bin - 16 error(s), 0 warning(s) 2>------ Skipped Build: Project: ALL_BUILD, Configuration: RelWithDebInfo Win32 ------ 2>Project not selected to build for this solution configuration 3>------ Skipped Build: Project: viewer, Configuration: RelWithDebInfo Win32 ------ 3>Project not selected to build for this solution configuration ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 50 up-to-date, 2 skipped ========== From tayra.dagostino at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 05:36:21 2010 From: tayra.dagostino at gmail.com (Tayra Dagostino) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:36:21 +0100 Subject: [sldev] how to disable pulseaudio? Message-ID: <20100131143621.1ebe041b.tayra.dagostino@gmail.com> I've a lot of problem with pulseaudio (linux, SG 1.3.0.3119), if i setup ALSA as input&output devices i get from debug console: AL lib: pulseaudio.c:397: Context did not get ready: Connection refused in startup script there are no way to disable, any solution? From open at autistici.org Sun Jan 31 12:55:42 2010 From: open at autistici.org (Opensource Obscure) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:55:42 +0000 Subject: [sldev] My first attempt with Avatars United / Second Life apps Message-ID: <7b3f061423c957fb20766d3aea73e666@localhost> Scripts & basic documentation for my first attempt to create an Avatars United / Second Life app https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Opensource_Obscure/AvatarsUnited/SimStats The 'gadget' shows some statistics from my sim inside the Avatars United profile page. Any constructive feedback would be very appreciated, as I'm an amateur and I'm willing to learn more. Note: you can't install this app in your AU page - I'm not providing it as a service and I didn't submit it to AU yet. However you can 'create' it and it will appear in your AU profile page. If you don't know what Avatars United is about have a look at https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2010/01/29/avatars-unite http://developer.avatarsunited.com bye Opensource Obscure -- http://www.avatarsunited.com/avatars/opensource-obscure From jacek.antonelli at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 22:15:42 2010 From: jacek.antonelli at gmail.com (Jacek Antonelli) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:15:42 -0600 Subject: [sldev] 'L$ received' notification generated server side? Message-ID: <105c09f1001312215k7a10631g6dd52dbd5dea000c@mail.gmail.com> I've been working on SNOW-436 ("Optional text for payments to show up in transaction history"), and at the moment I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to display the custom message when you receive a payment. In other words, in the blue notification box where it currently says "So-and-so paid you L$100", I'd like to make it also display the message, like how teleport requests and friend requests do. But, I'm starting to think that the notification text is generated server side, which would put a damper on those plans. The notification text seems to be constructed in llinventory/lltransactionflags.cpp, in the function "build_transfer_message_to_destination". But, that function is never called by the viewer, so I'm guessing it is used by the server instead. Could a Linden confirm that the notification text is indeed generated server side? If so, would it be feasible to shift that to client side? That is, have the server send the payer name/UUID, money amount, and the custom message ("description") to the viewer, and let the viewer format the notification text? It seems like that would be a good idea anyway, because then "paid you" could be localized, too. :) - Jacek From gbrandon at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 23:22:50 2010 From: gbrandon at gmail.com (Brandon Lockaby) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 02:22:50 -0500 Subject: [sldev] 'L$ received' notification generated server side? In-Reply-To: <105c09f1001312215k7a10631g6dd52dbd5dea000c@mail.gmail.com> References: <105c09f1001312215k7a10631g6dd52dbd5dea000c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Third party viewers achieve the custom message by using the transaction type for object sale (5000) On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Jacek Antonelli wrote: > I've been working on SNOW-436 ("Optional text for payments to show up > in transaction history"), and at the moment I'm trying to figure out > if it's possible to display the custom message when you receive a payment. > > In other words, in the blue notification box where it currently says > "So-and-so paid you L$100", I'd like to make it also display the > message, like how teleport requests and friend requests do. But, I'm > starting to think that the notification text is generated server side, > which would put a damper on those plans. > > The notification text seems to be constructed in > llinventory/lltransactionflags.cpp, in the function > "build_transfer_message_to_destination". But, that function is never > called by the viewer, so I'm guessing it is used by the server instead. > > Could a Linden confirm that the notification text is indeed generated > server side? > > If so, would it be feasible to shift that to client side? That is, > have the server send the payer name/UUID, money amount, and the custom > message ("description") to the viewer, and let the viewer format the > notification text? > > It seems like that would be a good idea anyway, because then "paid > you" could be localized, too. :) > > - Jacek > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLDev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/attachments/20100201/ec95a81d/attachment.htm