[sldev] SL 2.0?

[John Hurliman]

I had Verse+realXtend Viewer+Blender+OpenSim working as a prototype at one
point. Unfortunately the OpenSim API broke before I captured a video and
haven't had time to toy with it since then. One issue to think about is that
you would have to make a distinction between meshes that are "done"/"baked"
and meshes that are currently being edited, along with tracking who is
editing them. A mesh in a virtual world would generally be sent in a
compressed format (my guess is LL will use JPEG2000 for this, ala
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4140920). The verse
protocol represents mesh data with subdivision surfaces instead of vertices,
meaning Verse-enabled meshes would be stored and transmitted in a different
format.

It's all possible, but requires a non-trivial amount of work. Ping me if you
start working on this. I have a semi-functional C# Verse client
implementation, and the published docs for Verse range from slightly
misleading to blatantly wrong in places.

John

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Nexii Malthus <nexiim at googlemail.com>wrote:

> Verse might not be such an idea. One of the major use-cases of verse was
> that it would allow high-end tools to communicate effectively realtime. Say
> you have an artists working in Adobe Photoshop on a texture which are on
> finished parts of a mesh while your editting that mesh adding new geometry
> in 3Dsmax and an animator was using Maya to use that mesh as part of a small
> movie scene.
>
> What if we throw SL into this mix and allowed realtime updates at least for
> the content creator or even better a team of them or anyone else connected
> with the verse server while a bunch of friends in-world that are also
> connected to the verse server prod the mesh around and brainstorm ideas and
> feedback while it is being made?
>
> That sounds like the most awesome thing ever. And you know, if you have
> that going you might get a good chance for official support, if not, its
> still a highly effective form for content creation.
>
> [/ramblings][/scribbles]
>
> - Nexii
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Zha Ewry <zha.ewry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the reason you see so much pushback on the idea of a full mesh
>> editor inside the second life client is the sheer complexity of such
>> tools. Building a set of complete mesh editing tools which shared
>> frequent updates via the region would be a serious challenge. That
>> said,I think that there are a number of basic operations one would
>> want to be able to do to Meshed objects. Simple resizes are the
>> obvious ones. I'd say texturing, but in general, mesh faces are harder
>> to discretely texture. It will be very interesting to see if people
>> have good answers to that.
>>
>> At the same time, there is huge power in building things in world out
>> of small composable building blocks. I'm hopeful that Meshes in Second
>> Life will end up being used more for components, and less for complete
>> large chunks. I'm thinking trees, castle walls, Chairs, and such, and
>> less complete buildings, landscapes and so on. This is even more
>> cogent, when it comes to managing large amounts of hosted content. The
>> bigger the mesh chunks, the more one simply has to wait for the whole
>> mesh to arrive and be added to the client's scenegraph model before
>> you can render it. This also hints at some interesting issues for
>> various loads. Prims as load markers has been a somewhat broken model
>> for a while. All prims are not equally expensive to render, nor do
>> they take up the same simulator resources. One hopes that meshes
>> arrive with some thought about how to manage the resources they
>> consume. It would be really painful if the model encouraged large,
>> bulky meshes, just to game the measurement system.
>>
>> ~ Zha
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mary Blackwell
>> <arseovrteakettl at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I wish LL would approach someone like Blizz or Cryptic and talk about
>> > porting to SL for bases and guildhalls in some way.  Of course I don't
>> > mean you could use the same avvies, but to make some sort of official
>> > connection and allow the degree of customizability we have in SL.
>> >
>> > Otherwise, even if Blizz implemented player customized forts, they'd be
>> instanced and "cookie cutter" just as they are in EQ2 and City of Heros/City
>> of VIllains.
>> >
>> > Getting access to the millions playing Wow and other mmos is not a bad
>> idea.
>> >
>> >
>> > Just
>> > my hobbyhorse.  If these things stay around for long, it is ineivtable
>> > this will happen.  Might as well be the ones who get rich off it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: Lawson English <lenglish5 at cox.net>
>> > To: "Frisby, Adam" <adam at deepthink.com.au>
>> > Cc: "sldev at lists.secondlife.com" <sldev at lists.secondlife.com>
>> > Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 10:05:01 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [sldev] SL 2.0?
>> >
>> > Frisby, Adam wrote:
>> >> It's worth pointing out that outside tools are a lot better.
>> >>
>> >> If you add inworld texturing facilities - you are unlikely to get much
>> better than MSPaint. Proper texturing requires proper tools (ie, Adobe
>> Photoshop) - likewise mesh editing requires decent tools to be effective.
>> Inworld mesh editing is really a unnessecary feature; sure you can do it -
>> but it's cart before the horse if you don't add mesh support at all first.
>> >>
>> >
>> > There can be many levels of editing tool. The fact that id has gone to
>> > the expense to provide their professional level artists with relatively
>> > high-end in-world tools (even if they aren't as good as the "out-world"
>> > tools) suggests that they have found that there is a need for such tools
>> > to make things look "right."
>> >
>> > The fact that SL also involves collaboration/immersion as one of its
>> > main attractions makes it even more important.
>> >
>> >
>> > Even in MMORPG games, such tools might be of value. If WoW had the
>> > option to build a fort (perhaps using prefab boulders/bricks), as part
>> > of the game play in preparation for some PVP encounter or a quest, I'm
>> > pretty sure that you would find many people wanting to use them.
>> >
>> >
>> > Lawson
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