[opensource-dev] Can we, open source devs, still support Snowglobe? was: Can we be more productive, please?

Aleric Inglewood aleric.inglewood at gmail.com
Fri Apr 2 06:36:45 PDT 2010


Clearly, no open source developer can accept the possibility to be held
liable for their help, by supplying patches.

Therefore, we CANNOT agree with the TPV policy unless we understand
its implications, as explained by a real lawyer, preferably one of Linden
Lab,
where it is made clear that developers are not liable for 1) bugs, 2) what
others
do with their source code, aka the general idea of the GPL.

Until that has been established, officially, I do NOT agree with the TPV
policy.
DISCLAIMER:
When I got the pop-up that asked me to agree I made a point of it to NOT
accept it, but spend first an hour to write a patch that made it possible
for
me to click on 'cancel' and still login. I then removed that patch again
(and
can still log in). Since the TOS/TPVp isn't effective as of 30 April, this
is
not an illegal thing to do. If I do not get another pop-up at 30 April (and
I
predict I won't), then I will still not have agreed to the TPV policy.

Nevertheless, this is a very undesirable situation of course. So, indeed
as JB Hancroft says (who sounds like a Linden with a gmail account :p ),
it's better to leave completely. Leave SL, and obviously also stop helping
to improve the viewer code. Unfortunately, if it would only be me it will
have
no effect and will be useless: I would only harm myself because I like
using SL and I like working on snowglobe AND we know that Linden Lab
*really* only wants something that we (and I) CAN agree with. It's just
that they didn't restrict themselves to the real goal of the TPVp. This
whole conflict is utterly unnecessary!

Hence, leaving without that that would result in Linden Lab fixing this
situation and changing the TPVp (or have an official lawyer statement
that we can understand and agree with) would be too ridiculous for
words.

However, I *am* prepared to do this if I'm not the only one.

I have not seen the real contributors, Robin,  Boroondas, Dzonatas,
Techwolf, Thickbrick (the *currently* most active ones that I know from
IRC / my timezone) say much on this topic. But it's your collective
feeling (and action) that will count here.

Who of the active contributors (speak up if I missed you) are willing to
make a stand and stop at least developing for snowglobe, unless we
get a clear, understandable and official explanation what kind of legal
liability TPV devs are facing? Don't you think we owe that to the other
open developers that do not work on snowglobe, but on some TPV?

PS LL, please don't tell me this should be posted on this list.
     because it "calls for ... something you don't like. I'd rather use
    this list and discuss it in the open, with everyone involved,
   than approach all the devs off-list. Or set up a new mailinglist without
   Lindens on it. Seems really the right thing to do.

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 2:41 PM, JB Hancroft <jbhancroft at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here are my thoughts:
>
> 1) If you're not an attorney, please do the rest of us a favor by not
> acting like one.
>     The TPVP is a legal document, and while we all have opinions, opinions
>     that are based on something other than legal understanding and
> experience
>     are more likely to contribute to the body of urban legend, than clarify
> and inform.
>     The law is the law, and whether we like it or not, my understanding is
> that
>     applying rationale to it's interpretation is a fool's errand.
>
> 2) If you've got a 3rd-party viewer, and the TPVP is an issue for you, then
> this isn't
>      the forum in which to resolve it.  Take it to Linden Lab via the legal
>      system, with your legal counsel involved.
>
> 3) Second Life is a business; it's not "our" social cause. If you don't
> like the way
>     things are, you certainly have a right to bitch and complain and lobby
> for change.
>     But at some point, you're just going to annoy people. Linden Lab
> employees
>     have already noted the "noise-to-signal ratio" they've observed in the
> process of
>     extracting what they consider to be valid input and feedback.
>
> 4) If you want to argue as a hobby, please... enjoy.  I'm asking that you
> please do it
>     somewhere else.  If you truly believe the situation with the TPVP is
> all evil and
>     bad and not workable,  then please "leave".  If you don't like the
> game, don't play.
>
> Yes, there are many ways in which what I've written here can be argued and
> dissected
> and found lacking.  Please... don't bother; spend your time in a more
> productive way.
>
> - JB
>
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