[opensource-dev] TPV - Nope

Moriz Gupte moriz.gupte at gmail.com
Sat Apr 3 09:32:35 PDT 2010

Thanks Nicholaz for your hardwork. I used your viewer a lot to bypass issues
I had then with the standard viewer. I think Linden Lab was soooo lucky to
have had such a vibrant community in place. From my point of view, I see a
slow erosion of veteran well known content creators and client developers. I
think LL probably has a better view of things...may be there see things that
we can't. The media is still interested in LL as an article to be published
in the Wallstreet journal (in a couple of weeks or so) soon will prove. But
I have concerns about the future. LL will survive not because of excellence
but because of poor and fragmented competition. Btw I went into lurking mode
because it was clear to me that only folks that submit patches were
encouraged to speak. Many like myself have enough background to contribute
patches...but I chose to focus on content creation (and my contribution so
far has only been through virtual learning environment design). So back to

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Marine Kelley <marinekelley at gmail.com>wrote:

> This is a sad day. I remember the times when you were indeed the most
> prolific contributor, when your own third-party viewer was the toast of SL,
> and the SL viewer has benefited greatly from your work. I think everyone can
> thank you for that (and everyone has !).
> And I'd like to thank you for helping me get started on my project back in
> the days.
> Best of luck for whatever next project you will work on,
> Marine
> On 3 April 2010 15:51, Nicholaz Beresford <nicholaz at blueflash.cc> wrote:
>> Hi All!
>> Since the TPV and new TOS seems to be in effect now, I'd like to finally
>> comment on it too.
>> For those of you who don't know me, I'm the person who started the first
>> thrird party viewer (in fact I made the original Wiki page
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Alternate_viewers&redirect=no
>> )
>> and as it appears I'm still the person with the most accepted patches to
>> the viewer (except maybe SnowGlobe commits, I'm not sure if or how they
>> are counted) and the winner of the year 2007 Linden OpenSource Award.
>> I have not made viewers in quite some time and have basically resigned
>> over gripes about how the Lindens handle open source and the OS
>> community in general, so I'm not sure if my words still have any weight
>> (not that any resident's words have any weight with the Lindens, except
>> Stroker Serpentine's maybe, when they are voiced through a lawyer or
>> court).  So just take my words as coming from the elder statesman
>> armchair.
>> However, I still had my account and a couple of alts, but this new
>> TOS/TPV, now that's it's out of the box about to be in effect soon, puts
>> the final nail into the coffin.
>> I'm not going to try to dissect what's written there or what the
>> practical legal impact is.  Living in Germany with strong customer
>> protection laws, legal impact in fact is most likely zilch, but what the
>> TOS and the TPV does, is to show the Linden's view of their relationship
>> beween themselves and their residents and OS developers.
>> While it's not a secret that I have been less than thrilled by their
>> views and actions in the past, I find the TPV taking it to a new level.
>> It is their servers, their assets, their business.  But trying to use
>> their power in a way like this, dictating the terms, making far reaching
>> demands and lightly brushing off concerns is unacceptable.
>> Of course a viewer maker needs comply with the law, no TOS is needed for
>> that.  But making demands like the branding (as if the word "Life" was
>> their invention) or demanding disclosure like section 8d which goes far
>> beyond any legal obligations is just way over the top for me.
>> I took their sources based on GPL once and at that time alternate
>> viewers seemed to be welcome and later I even jumped through a few hoops
>> to meet their new whims (e.g. complying with their trademark policies).
>>  In the recent past, I have still used SL on occasion as a regular user
>> and now, trying to use SL as a user, I'm finding myself being presented
>> with new demands because my past viewers are still out there for download.
>> Am I going to agree to that?  No frigging way.  I certainly do not want
>> to have any relationship with a company who is trying to use their
>> position of power in a way like that, no matter if it's legally valid or
>> not.  The new TOS/TPV defines who LL thinks they are and who they think
>> their users are and what kinds of demands and claims LL thinks they can
>> make or what they think is acceptable and fair.
>> I can only recommend to every viewer maker and contributor to have a
>> look at this broader picture and evaluate if their contributions in time
>> and efforts are worthwhile.   Mine where fun when LL was a different
>> company, but there I no way I would have made contributions under the
>> current terms.  In fact I won't even log in again under the new terms
>> and have canceled my accounts today.
>> Nicholaz.
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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
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