No subject


Wed Apr 28 21:25:55 PDT 2010


I would love to be wrong in that regard but then again i just don't see how
your going to handle such things in a closed source engine.



On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, <mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com> wrote:

>  Obviously these are subjective statements but I think your statements ar=
e
> based on an incomplete understanding of the tool and probably limited
> experience using it.
>
>
>
> Not sure how you can say it is clunky.  I have a scene hierarchy where I
> can list and see every object in my seen. It=92s like seeing every prim i=
n my
> region.  I can select any object and view it in the inspector.
>
>
>
> Scripts are assigned to objects and not copied and duplicated into each
> prim.  I can edit a script once and every object that uses it gets that
> update.
>
>
>
> In the inspector I can see every public value of the script and change it=
s
> value without having to actually edit the script.
>
>
>
> I can use assets directly from my disk without having to upload them when
> creating.  That is much faster than waiting for SL to do things.
>
>
>
> Scripts can access to every bone in the skeleton system and I can overrid=
e
> animations to adjust the bones to a given scene=92s needs, for instance i=
f two
> avatars are a different height and I can adjust the bones to make their
> hands connect so they can really walk hand in hand.
>
>
>
> I can create keyed animations in Unity or use animations from other
> programs.  Animates can throw events which can trigger code to do things.
>  From scripts you can create and edit the animations and their key data.
>  You can layer animations, set their weights.  You can sync the length of
> layers.  Cross fade animations.
>
>
>
> You have materials like you do in Maya.
>
>
>
> I can create custom shaders.
>
>
>
> You can have spot lights, point lights and directional lights.
>
>
>
> You can create your own skyboxes.
>
>
>
> You can use water any where, not limited to just one plane with the water
> shader.
>
>
>
> I can use meshes.  Any object in the scene can have a skeleton.
>
>
>
> I can edit meshes and vertices in real-time allowing me to create
> parameterized content in real-time.
>
>
>
> I can load assets from a URL or through websockets.
>
>
>
> I can load textures from a URL or through websockets.
>
>
>
> There is a profiler that lets me see in great detail what the engine is
> doing.
>
>
>
> I can use Visual Studio to develop my scripts with all the features of
> Visual Studio.
>
>
>
> I can run a debugger and debug the scripts and libraries I am using in th=
e
> scene.
>
>
>
> I can do baked lighting including ambient occlusion inside the tool
>
>
>
> I can do occlusion culling so I can have very large scenes.
>
>
>
> I can control what assets are loading and stream the rest in the
> background.
>
>
>
> I can use libraries of code.
>
>
>
> From one code base I can be published to many platforms including web and
> mobile phone.  Linux is the big one they are missing a native support for=
.
>
>
>
> Should I go on?
>
>
>
>
>
> This is a group that is focused on Second Life client so not trying to
> convince anyone to switch.  But I do think it is fair that people give
> accurate information based on real experience and not guessing.  I think =
if
> you understood the tool more you will see your statements are based on
> inaccurate understanding of the tool.
>
>
>
> I personally do believe that the game development platforms will outpace
> anyone doing proprietary client development and as such the days are quic=
kly
> approaching where you won=92t be able to justify the cost of developing y=
our
> own client rendering engines when you can get the features off the shelf =
for
> $1200 that would cost you way more to do yourself.  I also believe you wo=
n=92t
> stay up and will find yourself quickly falling behind.
>
>
>
> M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Brandon Husbands [mailto:xotmid at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 9:57 PM
> *To:* mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com
> *Cc:* Robert Exile In Paradise Murphey;
> opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future
> (maybe even official) SL Viewers
>
>
>
> Actually its not inaccurate. The tools themselves are clunky.. And i am n=
ot
> taking this as a lsl vs their language. I am talking about the engine
> itself.  From a lower level perspective.  Unity is really more of a
> middleware when it comes to graphics engines. sure you can use any networ=
k
> you want but in a whole as what it offers as a base is not what would be
> able to be used for something on the scale of sl.
>
> Also as a user you would not have those midddle ware tools that you see
> unless you want the whole thing to be clunky.
>
> Its rigging and control system is designed for rapid prototyping and high=
er
> level designig.
>
> I would put unity as an equivilant to making a mod for a fps with "good"
> tools unlike most mod systems.
>
> But as a complete engine from a graphics and other standpoints The hero
> engine blows that away. Actually there are quite a few game engines that
> surpass unity. And if we take thoes its like compairing writing with QT v=
s
> flash. (not quick time... but QT).
>
> Flash is great as a packaged thing but its limited. Now unity can me
> modified and such to some extent but no where whats needed for a SL type =
of
> thing.
>
> And for the record I am not a fan boi of any engine or system. But i have
> developed a mmo from the ground up in 2001 to playable alpha 2 on the cus=
p
> of beta before the project was shelved due to funding.
> Having written a majority of the Engine and most of the server code. I
> would thing these are subjects i am quite capable of assessing.
>
>
>  On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:41 PM, <mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com> wrote:
>
> Alright, this is the most incorrect post I have ever seen so I would gues=
s
> you have used Unity for maybe a total of an one hour.
>
>
>
> First of all you can use any network technology you like.  It does come
> with a very basic P2P network, but you can use many game server that you
> like included some that support fail over and fault tolerance
> configurations.  In fact there are those using SL=92s server and renderin=
g
> prims and sculpties in Unity.
>
>
>
> The scripting language can also use C# and supports a way more complete s=
et
> of functions then is available in SL.  This list is so long I don=92t kno=
w
> where to start on functionality it supports that LSL doesn=92t support.
>
>
>
> Not sure your point about FPS, it has Ambers Occlusion culling, beast
> lighting and deferred lighting which lets it create FPS you can=92t do in=
 SL
> for the same amount of content.
>
>
>
> So if you are going to comment on Unity please do your homework and don=
=92t
> mislead people.
>
>
>
> M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [mailto:
> opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of *Brandon
> Husbands
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:20 PM
> *To:* Robert Exile In Paradise Murphey
> *Cc:* opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future
> (maybe even official) SL Viewers
>
>
>
> Unity is the biggest POS i have ever used....
> Not well designed. IMHO. Its like trying to do SL in javascript.
> Not literally but you know what i mean.
>
> It was never designed for a heavy network transport now multi player / mm=
o
> style.
>
> A FPS maybe but nothing on a grand scale.
>
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey <
> exile at weylan-yutani.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 18:15 -0400, Glen Canaday wrote:
> > That's why I suggested Ogre instead. I personally think it would be a
> > better fit and more productive to look at. Others may have different
> > opinions.
>
> Well, I run Linux and agree that being shut out after
> years of being supported would be suboptimal for me.
>
> Running in a VM is an exercise that only a masochist can love
> compared to an application natively supported.
>
> Plus, a VM position forces people to purchase additional OSes
> just to support one (or a handful) of apps, which add massive
> overheard in additional administration. At-home-VM is a
> temporary workaround, not a "platform strategy".
> Remember - SL is supposed to be Fast, Easy, Fun... not an
> enterprise-level support nightmare just to boot and run in
> the first place.
>
> Unity3D seems like a lot of "lose" to me: for the same amount
> of effort to switch to that, re-base on something else that keeps
> the same supported set of platforms or extends it without dropping
> already supported platforms.
>
> OGRE may be a great suggestion, especially in light of the RealXtend
> folks having already broken a LOT of the ground of an "SL client
> that uses OGRE rendering." Why re-reinvent their wheel?
> Maybe talk to them about Naali and see what goes from there?
>
> --
> Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey
> Promise her anything, but give her Exxon unleaded.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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> Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
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Ive used it, and fount it blehh.=A0 I think we are failing to communicate a=
bout our conception of what is possible and what is used.<br><br>Are you sa=
ying that the normal user would have full access to what you use to develop=
 the &quot;client&quot;?<br>
As its a middle ware really i fail to see how your going to implement that.=
<br>I could be wrong. There are so many propitiatory things that you&#39;d =
have to code in and handle rendering for with sl. Also remember you can not=
 change the server backend. I just do not see it possible or powerful enoug=
h to handle what sl uses and does. I guess its the same concept between hig=
her level langs and lower level ones. I could be wrong about this and just =
be old school in my thoughts.<br>
<br>If your so sure that it can do what needs to be done why have you not a=
lready done a prototype.<br>From what your saying should be easy to get con=
nected and render the scene. <br><br>I would love to be wrong in that regar=
d but then again i just don&#39;t see how your going to handle such things =
in a closed source engine.<br>
<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM,  <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com">mysticaldem=
ina at xrgrid.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">












<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-US">

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Obviously these ar=
e subjective statements
but I think your statements are based on an incomplete understanding of the
tool and probably limited experience using it. =A0</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Not sure how you c=
an say it is clunky. =A0I
have a scene hierarchy where I can list and see every object in my seen. It=
=92s
like seeing every prim in my region. =A0I can select any object and view it
in the inspector.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Scripts are assign=
ed to objects and not
copied and duplicated into each prim.=A0 I can edit a script once and every
object that uses it gets that update.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In the inspector I=
 can see every public value
of the script and change its value without having to actually edit the scri=
pt.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can use assets d=
irectly from my disk
without having to upload them when creating.=A0 That is much faster than
waiting for SL to do things.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Scripts can access=
 to every bone in the
skeleton system and I can override animations to adjust the bones to a give=
n
scene=92s needs, for instance if two avatars are a different height and I
can adjust the bones to make their hands connect so they can really walk ha=
nd
in hand.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can create keyed=
 animations in Unity or
use animations from other programs. =A0Animates can throw events which can
trigger code to do things. =A0From scripts you can create and edit the
animations and their key data. =A0You can layer animations, set their
weights.=A0 You can sync the length of layers.=A0 Cross fade animations.</s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">You have materials=
 like you do in Maya.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can create custo=
m shaders.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">You can have spot =
lights, point lights and
directional lights.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">You can create you=
r own skyboxes.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">You can use water =
any where, not limited
to just one plane with the water shader.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can use meshes.=
=A0 Any object in the
scene can have a skeleton.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can edit meshes =
and vertices in
real-time allowing me to create parameterized content in real-time.</span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can load assets =
from a URL or through websockets.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can load texture=
s from a URL or through
websockets.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">There is a profile=
r that lets me see in
great detail what the engine is doing.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can use Visual S=
tudio to develop my
scripts with all the features of Visual Studio.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can run a debugg=
er and debug the scripts
and libraries I am using in the scene.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can do baked lig=
hting including ambient
occlusion inside the tool</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can do occlusion=
 culling so I can have
very large scenes.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can control what=
 assets are loading and
stream the rest in the background.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I can use librarie=
s of code.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">From one code base=
 I can be published to
many platforms including web and mobile phone. =A0Linux is the big one they
are missing a native support for.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Should I go on?</s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">This is a group th=
at is focused on Second
Life client so not trying to convince anyone to switch.=A0 But I do think i=
t
is fair that people give accurate information based on real experience and =
not
guessing. =A0I think if you understood the tool more you will see your
statements are based on inaccurate understanding of the tool. </span></font=
></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I personally do be=
lieve that the game
development platforms will outpace anyone doing proprietary client developm=
ent
and as such the days are quickly approaching where you won=92t be able to j=
ustify
the cost of developing your own client rendering engines when you can get t=
he features
off the shelf for $1200 that would cost you way more to do yourself.=A0 I
also believe you won=92t stay up and will find yourself quickly falling
behind.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">M.</span></font></=
p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<div>

<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center"><font=
 size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">

<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">

</span></font></div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b=
><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Tahoma"> Brandon Husbands
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:xotmid at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">xotmid at gmail.=
com</a>] <br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, October 03, 20=
10
9:57 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:mystic=
aldemina at xrgrid.com" target=3D"_blank">mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com</a><br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Robert Exile In Paradise
Murphey; <a href=3D"mailto:opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com" target=3D"_=
blank">opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com</a></span></font></p><div><div><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"></font></div><div class=3D"h5"><font size=
=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>

<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [opensource-dev=
]
Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers</font=
></div></div><p></p>

</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=A0</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Actually its not
inaccurate. The tools themselves are clunky.. And i am not taking this as a=
 lsl
vs their language. I am talking about the engine itself.=A0 From a lower
level perspective.=A0 Unity is really more of a middleware when it comes to
graphics engines. sure you can use any network you want but in a whole as w=
hat
it offers as a base is not what would be able to be used for something on t=
he
scale of sl. <br>
<br>
Also as a user you would not have those midddle ware tools that you see unl=
ess
you want the whole thing to be clunky.<br>
<br>
Its rigging and control system is designed for rapid prototyping and higher
level designig.<br>
<br>
I would put unity as an equivilant to making a mod for a fps with
&quot;good&quot; tools unlike most mod systems. <br>
<br>
But as a complete engine from a graphics and other standpoints The hero eng=
ine
blows that away. Actually there are quite a few game engines that surpass
unity. And if we take thoes its like compairing writing with QT vs flash. (=
not
quick time... but QT).<br>
<br>
Flash is great as a packaged thing but its limited. Now unity can me modifi=
ed
and such to some extent but no where whats needed for a SL type of thing. <=
br>
<br>
And for the record I am not a fan boi of any engine or system. But i have
developed a mmo from the ground up in 2001 to playable alpha 2 on the cusp =
of
beta before the project was shelved due to funding.<br>
Having written a majority of the Engine and most of the server code. I woul=
d
thing these are subjects i am quite capable of assessing.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:41 PM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com" target=3D"_blank">mysticaldemina at xrgrid.com</a=
>&gt;
wrote:</span></font></p>

<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue">

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Alright, this is t=
he most incorrect post I have ever seen so I
would guess you have used Unity for maybe a total of an one hour.</span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">First of all you c=
an use any network technology you like. =A0It
does come with a very basic P2P network, but you can use many game server t=
hat
you like included some that support fail over and fault tolerance
configurations.=A0 In fact there are those using SL=92s server and renderin=
g
prims and sculpties in Unity.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The scripting lang=
uage can also use C# and supports a way more
complete set of functions then is available in SL. =A0This list is so long =
I
don=92t know where to start on functionality it supports that LSL
doesn=92t support.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Not sure your poin=
t about FPS, it has Ambers Occlusion culling,
beast lighting and deferred lighting which lets it create FPS you can=92t
do in SL for the same amount of content.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">So if you are goin=
g to comment on Unity please do your homework and
don=92t mislead people.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">M.</span></font></=
p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font><=
/p>

<div>

<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center"><font=
 size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">

<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">

</span></font></div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b=
><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Tahoma"> <a href=3D"mailto:opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com" =
target=3D"_blank">opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">opensource-dev-bounces at lists.secondlife.com</a>] <b><span sty=
le=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Brandon Husbands<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, October 03, 20=
10
8:20 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Robert Exile In Paradise=
 Murphey<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:openso=
urce-dev at lists.secondlife.com" target=3D"_blank">opensource-dev at lists.secon=
dlife.com</a><br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [opensource-dev=
]
Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers</span=
></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=A0</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unity is the
biggest POS i have ever used.... <br>
Not well designed. IMHO. Its like trying to do SL in javascript.<br>
Not literally but you know what i mean. <br>
<br>
It was never designed for a heavy network transport now multi player / mmo
style.<br>
<br>
A FPS maybe but nothing on a grand scale.</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">On Sun, Oct 3,
2010 at 7:04 PM, Robert &quot;Exile In Paradise&quot; Murphey &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:exile at weylan-yutani.com" target=3D"_blank">exile at weylan-yutani.c=
om</a>&gt;
wrote:</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">On Sun, 2010-10-03
at 18:15 -0400, Glen Canaday wrote:<br>
&gt; That&#39;s why I suggested Ogre instead. I personally think it would b=
e a<br>
&gt; better fit and more productive to look at. Others may have different<b=
r>
&gt; opinions.</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Well, I run Linux
and agree that being shut out after<br>
years of being supported would be suboptimal for me.<br>
<br>
Running in a VM is an exercise that only a masochist can love<br>
compared to an application natively supported.<br>
<br>
Plus, a VM position forces people to purchase additional OSes<br>
just to support one (or a handful) of apps, which add massive<br>
overheard in additional administration. At-home-VM is a<br>
temporary workaround, not a &quot;platform strategy&quot;.<br>
Remember - SL is supposed to be Fast, Easy, Fun... not an<br>
enterprise-level support nightmare just to boot and run in<br>
the first place.<br>
<br>
Unity3D seems like a lot of &quot;lose&quot; to me: for the same amount<br>
of effort to switch to that, re-base on something else that keeps<br>
the same supported set of platforms or extends it without dropping<br>
already supported platforms.<br>
<br>
OGRE may be a great suggestion, especially in light of the RealXtend<br>
folks having already broken a LOT of the ground of an &quot;SL client<br>
that uses OGRE rendering.&quot; Why re-reinvent their wheel?<br>
Maybe talk to them about Naali and see what goes from there?<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
--<br>
Robert &quot;Exile In Paradise&quot; Murphey<br>
Promise her anything, but give her Exxon unleaded.</span></font></span></fo=
nt></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:<br>
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">http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev</a><br>
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privile=
ges</span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
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<br clear=3D"all">
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y be
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Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.<br>
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