[opensource-dev] Consensus? was: Client-side scripting in Snowglobe

Tigro Spottystripes tigrospottystripes at gmail.com
Mon Feb 22 00:06:32 PST 2010

Hash: SHA1

i think that instead of separating the scripts, we should have a table
with script names, some info, like creator etc, and a bunch of
checkboxes to give or deny permission for the script to do stuff, with a
way for client scripts to trigger a permission request dialog. Among the
permissions would be a permission to remember permissions, and another
to save the script locally/with the account.

On 22/2/2010 01:51, Morgaine wrote:
> Dzon:  Nice parable. :-)
> The moral of the story as it pertains to our topic is that when the
> superset is ambiguous as in our case (all scripts running client-side
> are naturally "client-side scripts"), then the ambiguity won't stop
> until you subset the space into disjoint subsets so that you can discuss
> each subset separately without confusion.
> That's what I've been trying to do, because "client-side script" is a
> universal term that naturally denotes all scripts running in the client
> by simple plain English, so you can't call just one subset of the
> scripts by that name without creating ambiguity.
> To remove the ambiguity, I split the space of all scripts that run
> client-side into two disjoint sets (note that we are using "scripts" and
> "programs" interchangeably here):
>     * *Trusted / Installed / Not-sandboxed*:  These are scripts which
>       you trust enough to install on your machine, and which typically
>       act as interfaces between the viewer and your local resources,
>       such as your files, applications, I/O devices, and so on.  Because
>       they interface to local resources, these scripts cannot run in a
>       sandbox.  In general, these scripts are for user empowerment ---
>       they can do anything the user wants them to do, and therefore a
>       very good term for them is "*client extensions*".   A large number
>       of accessibility scripts fall into this category, as well as
>       scripts for implementing new detached windows such as multi-screen
>       chat and inventories stored on the PC.
>     * *Untrusted / Not-installed / Sandboxed*:  These are scripts which
>       you do not trust because they arrived by some automatic mechanism,
>       possibly from in-world.  They are never installed, but run in a
>       protective sandbox while needed, and disappear automatically when
>       no longer needed.  Because they run in a sandbox to (hopefully)
>       protect your machine from malicious code, these scripts can never
>       access your local resources, as that would be extremely
>       dangerous.  In general, these scripts are not for user
>       empowerment, but for enhancing or assisting the displayed content
>       from the current virtual world in some way.  A possible term for
>       them is therefore "*world extensions*".  This kind of script can
>       implement interesting HUDs using in-world data obtained from the
>       viewer, or new in-viewer windows, menus and improved viewer
>       inventory.
> A separate question is whether it is wise to allow untrusted scripts to
> run on your client at all, given that there will always be bugs and
> protection failures, especially in the first few years.  But that is a
> topic for a later discussion I think, given that currently we have not
> yet managed to open a dialogue with Lindens about client-side scripting
> at all.
> Morgaine.
> ===========================================
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Dzonatas Sol <dzonatas at gmail.com
> <mailto:dzonatas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     Morgaine wrote:
>         Carlo, I agree completely with you on the principle of the
>         implementation.
>         On the terminology, not only are you not being logical in your
>         naming, but you also immediately contradict yourself and
>         demonstrate beautifully how your suggested naming makes no sense
>         at all, not even to yourself.� Let me demonstrate:
>     One of Linden Lab's disqualifiers on attempts to be hired had to do
>     with a coin placed on any surface and the game of prediction of who
>     would win based on who placed the last coin on the surface where
>     there was room left over.
>     They go through a bunch of different kinds of objects, so I won't
>     name them off so they can still use the fair ones.
>     However, there was one they were beautifully wrong about: the sphere.
>     They even called people "stupid" on the spot who couldn't figure out
>     the sphere ended up with even amount of moves. Long story short
>     about... stupid.
>     We could challenge this since somehow it became more than personal,
>     or maybe it was meant to be challenged eventually. It wasn't their
>     standard procedure whatever it was.
>     If we take a perfect sphere with a perfect surface, there is an
>     obvious flaw that wouldn't allow it to be even in number of moves.
>     When LL said "here is a sphere the size of a quarter in diameter...
>     1 2 3 4 5 6" as one points top, bottom, left, right,  back, front.
>     And says "Stupid" with a superiority look.
>     Obviously the person that was challenged, the one to be hired, said
>     "Odd."
>     If you know if it is "even" or "odd" then you know who gets the last
>     move, and wins.
>     Further on the surface about a perfect sphere, if it diameter is
>     perfect no matter what tangent coordinate picked out on the surface,
>     then the surface could be eventually said it is infinite. There
>     would be infinite possibilities of any location on the surface that
>     could be tangent coordinated.
>     If that is true, which gave the possibility of infinite surface,
>     then one could also put another perfect sphere nearby the first
>     perfect sphere.
>     Here is the beauty of this, if the first perfect sphere has an
>     infinite surface and the second perfect sphere has an infinite
>     surface, then they are both the same infinite surface.
>     The rules of this game never specified where to put the next perfect
>     sphere.
>     Now if left some space in between the two spheres, then it should
>     still be "Even" number of moves if we continue with this one.
>     What we put the sphere tangent or in union with the first one. It's
>     the same surface, and the game was about the surface.
>     If it is plainly tangent, then there would be one less coin to put
>     on the surface, and it would be "Odd."
>     No? Not convinced, yet? You say that would be two less coins? And
>     you claim "Even?"
>     Let's add another perfect sphere...
>     Same infinite surface.
>     When do we stop?
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