[opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

miss c miss_c_27 at yahoo.com
Tue Sep 28 01:04:24 PDT 2010


SNIP~~~~~P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the 
software  licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors  
agreement and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was  actually 
written by the person who attached it to jira, whether that  person has a 
contributors agreement or what license was attached to that  code. At the very 
least I am guessing it is extremely bad form to  submit code you don't own and 
didn't create into the jira.

SNIP~~~~~kelly linden commented on VWR-23200:
It  would be helpful to get more specifics on exactly what information is  
desired. I have not used many TPVs so it isn't immediately apparent what  
feature set you are requesting. Am I correct to guess that you are  asking for a 
list of avatars and how many scripts each avatar has on  them?

I was trying to give you the examples you specifically asked for.  You already 
have this code as it is in your agreement to be TPVD approve you must give the 
code over and have it opensourced.  I have been very excited over the viewer 
code base and all the improvements that you guys have made, because of the lack 
of sim tools this is a very needed function.  Sending my Jira to the Land team 
almost seems like certain death because they haven't added any useful tools in 
the 4 years I have been here in SL.  I have to have this feature and that's why 
I pushed it, I want to migrate over to 2.0 completely, but it looks like I cant 
now.  I would rather deal with unrezzed textures, lack of media, lack of all the 
new fun features, than not be able to manage my sim and this is MY number one 
tool to do it with.  The resizing scripts kill SL, we are talking thousands upon 
thousands, upon thousands, just think how it is with 50 people in a sim.  I 
spend so much time chasing these scripts, several times a day, these scripts 
bring my sim to its knees.  The script counter is my only weapon against it.  
Guess no mesh or streaming media for me, back to Phoenix.

Anne:  Ever so often I too send out pleas for designers to stop using these, 
they wont, they say its the customers responsibility to remove them, not their 
problem.




________________________________
From: Ann Otoole <missannotoole at yahoo.com>
To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:52:53 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request


The issue is all these crappy old obsolete resizers and texture changers.

How about a different approach? 
Step one is complete. Some of us have worked and posted for free various 
versions of the fast resizers in one script. So there is no excuse for anyone to 
continue building new content using the obsolete versions. 

Step 2 would be to do the same for texture changers which is a different animal.
Step 3 would be an official public awareness campaign to get creators on board.
Step 4 might be some sort of program to get people to trade in their old script 
abusing shoes and hair on new versions that are not abusive.
Step 5 might be to just kill the old abusive scripts when detected. 

Then LL can begin working on the other popular items notorious for infringing on 
others rights to  a stable sim they are paying tier in.

All this time an effort is going into mesh to get people to be aware of vertice 
counts. How about a similar effort around script resource abuse?

Then you don't have to sandbag regions to get to a tool for estate owners to 
eject what they feel are script abusers.





________________________________
From: Kelly Linden <kelly at lindenlab.com>
To: Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com>
Cc: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:55:57 AM
Subject: Re:  [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

There are multiple issues at play here:
What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force 
build the data being requested.  Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a bit 
of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being done than 
is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at implementing a 
feature request it is not in our best interest to just look at the quickest, 
dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a feature that will work 
smoothly and be something we can support into the future. Our access to and 
responsibility for the server side as well as the viewer gives us both a better 
opportunity as well as increased responsibility.

Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and they 
have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could have been 
quicker to expose better tools to them.

Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the viewer 
or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to focus on 
products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features we feel 
deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end. These 
features almost always benefit from both viewer and server development. It is 
also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related functionality together so we can 
better prioritize the features and bugs that effect the Land product against 
each other.

So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone, and 
kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do a more 
thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to prioritize 
this feature request against the many other feature requests for the Land 
product.

 - Kelly

P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software 
licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement and 
it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the 
person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors agreement 
or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am guessing it is 
extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't create into the jira.


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com> wrote:

Just to iterate that it does work.
>
>[22:22]  Counting scripts. Please wait.
>[22:22]  Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5
>
>Works for any object.
>The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts which is 
>a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer scripts in 
>object.
>
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers.  I 
>attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same exact 
>files in each viewer that does this NOW.  Did you even read my Jira??  I worked 
>so hard to supply every bit of information.  Unless you have allowed all these 
>other viewers access to the server code, I think there has been a mistake, could 
>you please reread my Jira.
>>
>>TY
>>
>>Miss
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com>
>>To: Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <esbee at lindenlab.com>
>>Cc: miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>; opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>>request
>>
>>
>>Actually no its a viewer feature...
>>
>>http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h
>>
>>and
>>http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp
>>
>>
>>Just plugin and create a menu etc...
>>
>>If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do that and 
>>comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.
>>
>>Dim.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <esbee at lindenlab.com> 
>>wrote:
>>
>>Hi Miss C, 
>>>
>>>
>>>The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm Team 
>>>wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly work on 
>>>the server-side. 
>>>
>>>
>>>I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and prioritize the 
>>>request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not publicly visible in the 
>>>new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with all the supporting data and 
>>>will be given proper consideration. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Best, 
>>>Esbee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on an 
>>>avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do correctly/reliably 
>>>with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team for 
>>>evaluation/prioritization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access where it 
>>>went either.  Below are the details I added, worked real hard on getting all 
>>>information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50 something votes, 
>>>now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Miss
>>>>
>>>>   [ 
>>>>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>>Esbee Linden updated VWR-23200:
>>>>-------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>    Summary: Script count feature request   (was: Script Count - 2.0 Absolute 
>>>>Dealbreaker - script count feature request)
>>>>
>>>>This  is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on  
>>>>an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do  correctly/reliably 
>>>>with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land  team for 
>>>>evaluation/prioritization.
>>>>
>>>>> Script count feature request 
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Key: VWR-23200
>>>>>                 URL: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>>>>>             Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
>>>>>          Issue Type: New Feature
>>>>>          Components: Avatar/Character, Building (in-world), Performance, 
>>>>>Scripting, Source Code, User Interface
>>>>>         Environment: Second Life 2.2.1 (210525) Sep 25 2010 08:22:37 (Second 
>>>>>Life Development)
>>>>> Release Notes
>>>>>  CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU    Q8300  @ 2.50GHz (2493.73 MHz)
>>>>> Memory: 6078 MB
>>>>> OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
>>>>> Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
>>>>> Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series 
>>>>> Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1041
>>>>> OpenGL Version: 3.3.10151 Compatibility Profile Context
>>>>> libcurl Version: libcurl/7.20.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
>>>>> J2C Decoder Version: KDU
>>>>> Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.740000
>>>>> Qt Webkit Version: 4.6 (version number hard-coded)
>>>>> Voice Server Version: Not Connected
>>>>> Built with MSVC version 1400
>>>>>            Reporter: Miss Wright
>>>>>            Priority: Severe
>>>>>          Attachments: CMakeLists.txt, floateravatarlist.cpp,  llstartup.cpp, 
>>>>>llviewermenu.cpp, menu_pie_attachment.xml,  menu_pie_avatar.xml, 
>>>>>menu_pie_object.xml, menu_pie_self.xml,  message.xml, scriptcounter.cpp, 
>>>>>scriptcounter.h, scriptcountsample.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  As a sim owner I MUST have a script counter so we can keep our scripts  low in 
>>>>>the sim because of the excessive use of resizing scripts.   Several times a day 
>>>>>we have an exercise in our sim where we make an  estate announcement to count 
>>>>>your scripts and your neighbors to reduce  the load on the servers.  Even though 
>>>>>we do this several times a day  there is always someone who forgot their scripts 
>>>>>in something, you can  easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on 
>>>>>them.  I am  completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the 
>>>>>other  features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker  
>>>>>for me.  I combed through the code to try and see if this was something  handled 
>>>>>in xml commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.   Can we please 
>>>>>get this option.
>>>>> Also the option of avatar  announcement and script fluctuation upon entering 
>>>>>the sim helps combat  scripts, this would be helpful in 2.0 but I wouldn't call 
>>>>>it a deal  breaker.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing  
>>>>>region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their  script 
>>>>>count if I am paying attention. 
>>>>>
>>>>> TY
>>>>> Miss
>>>>>  UPDATE: MORE INFO: If you are using a viewer based on the Emerald code  base 
>>>>>such as Emergance or Phoenix you can rightclick any object  including avatars 
>>>>>and it will count how many scripts are attached to the  avatar or are inside the 
>>>>>object. See referencing picture.You then  receive this message...
>>>>> [10:36]  Counting scripts. Please wait.
>>>>> [10:36]  Counted scripts from 14 attachments on amethys Inglewood: 540  (this 
>>>>>is someone that volunteered for this test)
>>>>>  Looking through the Phoenix, Wasabi, Emergance, & Emerald XML I  find that all 
>>>>>self object, attachment pie menus point to a function  called 
>>>>>"Object.VisibleScriptCount"
>>>>> The code is found in the menuviewer.xml 
>>>>>          <menu_item_call bottom="-525" enabled="false" height="19"  
>>>>>label="Count Scripts in Selection" left="0" mouse_opaque="true"  name="Count 
>>>>>Scripts in Selection" width="250">
>>>>>             <on_click function="Object.ScriptCount" />
>>>>>             <on_enable function="Object.VisibleScriptCount" />
>>>>>         </menu_item_call>
>>>>> I have attached the appropriate files that are in all these viewers
>>>>> Also this is the other feature I am referring to 
>>>>> [10:34]  amethys Inglewood has entered the sim.
>>>>> [10:34]  Total scripts jumped from 3357 to 3957 (600)
>>>>>  These are in separate functions in those viewers, one is in the radar,  the 
>>>>>other is in script change region announcements under phoenix misc in  
>>>>>preferences.  You see here his script count is higher than what his  body count 
>>>>>is because the body count does not include HUD attachments.   So this means he 
>>>>>has 60 on his HUD I cant see or count, I just know  there was a region change 
>>>>>when he entered the sim.
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
>>>>-
>>>>If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: 
>>>>https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Administrators.jspa
>>>>-
>>>>For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
________________________________
From: Frans <mrfrans at gmail.com>
>>>>To: miss c  <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>
>>>>Cc: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>>>Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 4:18:41 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>>>>request
>>>>
>>>>For some reason I can't access the Jira. I'm not sure what you are asking for. 
>>>>If you are asking for a script counter, there is the top scripts counter in the 
>>>>estate panel.
>>>>
>>>>-Frans
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I added it to the Jira : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>>>>>
>>>>>If it is a duplicate, I apologize, I did search and didn't find anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>TY 
>>>>>
>>>>>Miss
>>>>>
>>>>>
________________________________
From: miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
>>>>>Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 9:21:39 AM
>>>>>Subject: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>>>>>request
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our scripts low in 
>>>>>the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts.  Several times a day we 
>>>>>have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate announcement to count your 
>>>>>scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on the servers.  Even though we do 
>>>>>this several times a day there is always someone who forgot their scripts in 
>>>>>something, you can easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them.  I 
>>>>>am completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other 
>>>>>features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker for me.  I 
>>>>>combed through the code to try and see if this was something handled in xml 
>>>>>commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.  Can we please  get this 
>>>>>option, also the option of avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps 
>>>>>combat scripts.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing 
>>>>>region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their script 
>>>>>count if I am paying attention.  
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>TY
>>>>>
>>>>>Miss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>>>>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>>>>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting 
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
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>>>>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting 
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>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
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>>>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting 
privileges
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>>
>>
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