[opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Erin Mallory
angel_of_crimson at hotmail.com
Tue Sep 28 01:07:38 PDT 2010
I'm probably gonna get roasted here, but I actually agree with the decision to move it to the land team, even with the understanding that these tools might not be as fast to be complimented as they would be with a purely viewer approach.
here's my reasons:
1) If changing the server code means it can be done with less stress on the sim, that means sim resources can be better allocated for a smoother functioning sim.
2) by making it a combination of viewer AND simulator code, they open up the possibility of adding in additional tools that are based of these or work in conjunction with these with less work later on.
3) This opens up the possibility of script monitoring and replacement later on to do exactly what Ann is talking about with objects which are no modify and whose creators no longer support their products, no longer have the old versions to base new versions off of, have left SL, or have died.
4) Might inspire additional tools that we haven't thought of.
I honestly think kicking this to the land team would be a good idea as long as they understand that they need to put some priority on this.
That said, it might be wise to clone the issue back to vwr simply so a public one is available to access and where progress can be tracked by the community.
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:52:53 -0700
From: missannotoole at yahoo.com
To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
The issue is all these crappy old obsolete resizers and texture changers.
How about a different approach?
Step one is complete. Some of us have worked and posted for free various versions of the fast resizers in one script. So there is no excuse for anyone to continue building new content using the obsolete versions.
Step 2 would be to do the same for texture changers which is a different animal.
Step 3 would be an official public awareness campaign to get creators on board.
Step 4 might be some sort of program to get people to trade in their old script abusing shoes and hair on new versions that are not abusive.
Step 5 might be to just kill the old abusive scripts when detected.
Then LL can begin working on the other popular items notorious for infringing on others rights to
a stable sim they are paying tier in.
All this time an effort is going into mesh to get people to be aware of vertice counts. How about a similar effort around script resource abuse?
Then you don't have to sandbag regions to get to a tool for estate owners to eject what they feel are script abusers.
From: Kelly Linden <kelly at lindenlab.com>
To: Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com>
Cc: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:55:57 AM
Subject: Re:
[opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
There are multiple issues at play here:
What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force build the data being requested. Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased responsibility.
Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could have been quicker to expose better tools to them.
Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features we feel deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end. These features almost always benefit from both viewer and server development. It is also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related functionality together so we can better prioritize the features and bugs that effect the Land product against each other.
So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone, and kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do a more thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to prioritize this feature request against the many other feature requests for the Land product.
- Kelly
P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors agreement or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am guessing it is extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't create into the jira.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com> wrote:
Just to iterate that it does work.
[22:22] Counting scripts. Please wait.
[22:22] Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5
Works for any object.
The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts which is a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer scripts in object.
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers. I attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same exact files in each viewer that does this NOW. Did you even read my Jira?? I worked so hard to supply every bit of information. Unless you have allowed all these other viewers access to the server code, I think there has been a mistake, could you please reread my Jira.
TY
Miss
From: Brandon Husbands <xotmid at gmail.com>
To: Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <esbee at lindenlab.com>
Cc: miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>; opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Actually no its a viewer feature...
http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h
and
http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp
Just plugin and create a menu etc...
If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do that and comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.
Dim.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <esbee at lindenlab.com> wrote:
Hi Miss C,
The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm Team wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly work on the server-side.
I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and prioritize the request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not publicly visible in the new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with all the supporting data and will be given proper consideration.
Best, Esbee
This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team for evaluation/prioritization.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access where it went either. Below are the details I added, worked real hard on getting all information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50 something votes, now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
Miss
[ https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Esbee Linden updated VWR-23200:
-------------------------------
Summary: Script count feature request (was: Script Count - 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request)
This
is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on
an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land
team for evaluation/prioritization.
> Script count feature request
> -----------------------------
>
> Key: VWR-23200
> URL: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
> Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: Avatar/Character, Building (in-world), Performance, Scripting, Source Code, User Interface
> Environment: Second Life 2.2.1 (210525) Sep 25 2010 08:22:37 (Second Life Development)
> Release Notes
>
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8300 @ 2.50GHz (2493.73 MHz)
> Memory: 6078 MB
> OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
> Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
> Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series
> Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1041
> OpenGL Version: 3.3.10151 Compatibility Profile Context
> libcurl Version: libcurl/7.20.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> J2C Decoder Version: KDU
> Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.740000
> Qt Webkit Version: 4.6 (version number hard-coded)
> Voice Server Version: Not Connected
> Built with MSVC version 1400
> Reporter: Miss Wright
> Priority: Severe
>
Attachments: CMakeLists.txt, floateravatarlist.cpp,
llstartup.cpp, llviewermenu.cpp, menu_pie_attachment.xml,
menu_pie_avatar.xml, menu_pie_object.xml, menu_pie_self.xml,
message.xml, scriptcounter.cpp, scriptcounter.h, scriptcountsample.jpg
>
>
>
As a sim owner I MUST have a script counter so we can keep our scripts
low in the sim because of the excessive use of resizing scripts.
Several times a day we have an exercise in our sim where we make an
estate announcement to count your scripts and your neighbors to reduce
the load on the servers. Even though we do this several times a day
there is always someone who forgot their scripts in something, you can
easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them. I am
completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other
features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker
for me. I combed through the code to try and see if this was something
handled in xml commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.
Can we please get this option.
> Also the option of avatar
announcement and script fluctuation upon entering the sim helps combat
scripts, this would be helpful in 2.0 but I wouldn't call it a deal
breaker. I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing
region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their
script count if I am paying attention.
> TY
> Miss
>
UPDATE: MORE INFO: If you are using a viewer based on the Emerald code
base such as Emergance or Phoenix you can rightclick any object
including avatars and it will count how many scripts are attached to the
avatar or are inside the object. See referencing picture.You then
receive this message...
> [10:36] Counting scripts. Please wait.
> [10:36] Counted scripts from 14 attachments on amethys Inglewood: 540 (this is someone that volunteered for this test)
>
Looking through the Phoenix, Wasabi, Emergance, & Emerald XML I
find that all self object, attachment pie menus point to a function
called "Object.VisibleScriptCount"
> The code is found in the menuviewer.xml
>
<menu_item_call bottom="-525" enabled="false" height="19"
label="Count Scripts in Selection" left="0" mouse_opaque="true"
name="Count Scripts in Selection" width="250">
> <on_click function="Object.ScriptCount" />
> <on_enable function="Object.VisibleScriptCount" />
> </menu_item_call>
> I have attached the appropriate files that are in all these viewers
> Also this is the other feature I am referring to
> [10:34] amethys Inglewood has entered the sim.
> [10:34] Total scripts jumped from 3357 to 3957 (600)
>
These are in separate functions in those viewers, one is in the radar,
the other is in script change region announcements under phoenix misc in
preferences. You see here his script count is higher than what his
body count is because the body count does not include HUD attachments.
So this means he has 60 on his HUD I cant see or count, I just know
there was a region change when he entered the sim.
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From: Frans <mrfrans at gmail.com>
To: miss c
<miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>
Cc: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 4:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
For some reason I can't access the Jira. I'm not sure what you are asking for. If you are asking for a script counter, there is the top scripts counter in the estate panel.
-Frans
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM, miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
I added it to the Jira : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
If it is a duplicate, I apologize, I did search and didn't find anything.
TY
Miss
From: miss c <miss_c_27 at yahoo.com>
To: opensource-dev at lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 9:21:39 AM
Subject: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our scripts low in the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts. Several times a day we have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate announcement to count your scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on the servers. Even though we do this several times a day there is always someone who forgot their scripts in something, you can easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them. I am completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker for me. I combed through the code to try and see if this was something handled in xml commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code. Can we please
get this option, also the option of avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps combat scripts. I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their script count if I am paying attention.
TY
Miss
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