[opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list
Tigro Spottystripes
tigrospottystripes at gmail.com
Thu Apr 15 07:05:33 PDT 2010
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some TPVs might be released under licenses that do assign
responsibilities, legal liabilities etc to developers and/or
distributers, the TPVP shouldn't attempt to override any license applied
to any TPV
On 15/4/2010 09:13, Aleric Inglewood wrote:
> I thought it would make more sense (I still have hope) to say this now,
> and not wait till 30 April.
>
> Also I have decided that Linden Lab does not deserve the 40 hours
> per week that I spend volunteering on the snowglobe sources.
> Lately I have done less because my motivation was gone due to
> the policy, and there has been a long break because I suffer from
> something like carpel tunnel, but over all I DO spend that amount
> of time on a project that I am devoted to.
>
> If the TPV policy is not going to address FULLY that any open source
> developers remain completely free of liability as stated in the GPL
> license
>
> [to recap:
>
> [...] THE ENTIRE RISK AS
> TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU [the user].
> SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL
> NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
>
> [...] IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW [...]
> WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY AND/OR
> REDISTRIBUTE THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES,
> INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING
> OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED
> TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY
> YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER
> PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
>
> ]
>
> Because of the parts in the [...] it may or may not be POSSIBLE to make
> developers
> liable through the TPV policy, I don't care. I don't want to run the
> risk that the TPV
> makes me liable, so it should not contain any words that could be
> interpreted
> as such.
>
> I am sorry to say that I doubt that this will come to a resolution,
> because Joe already
> has said that he can only take SMALL changes and is not looking for a
> rewrite. He also
> said that he can only take it to the lawyers, but he has no power to
> actually enforce
> anything, it is not up to him.
>
> I will probably start maintaining another TPV specifically for some
> opengrid grid.
>
> The REASON I wanted to work on Snowglobe is because I believe that all open
> source projects are equal. We are not competitors (some devs of certain
> TPV(s)
> might take that to heart). I wanted to work there where my bug fixes and
> improvements would benefit all. But exactly for that reason I cannot standby
> when other open source projects that derive from Snowglobe are bullied into
> termination of their project and/or are forced to give up the freedom to
> make
> their own decisions, the only benefit of being an OS dev.
>
> Sad,
> Aleric Inglewood
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Joe Linden <joe at lindenlab.com
> <mailto:joe at lindenlab.com>> wrote:
>
> For those watching without the benefit of a transcript or the actual
> words I said in the meeting yesterday, here was the rest of that
> quote: "/ //we've had a lot of internal debate around cost/benefit
> of OS //... and we're fully committed to redoubling our commitment
> to make this a successful program/." Was it infuriating that we
> have internal debates from time to time on how we staff our
> projects, or infuriating because we are redoubling our efforts in
> many ways to make this a more successful and meaningful project for
> the OS community than it has been in the past? I was actually
> making a comment that we've not done this very well to date (in
> fact, we've sucked at it), and we're committed to many changes to
> improve the situation.
>
> Either way, we're sorry to see you go.
>
> -- joe
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Rob Nelson
> <nexisentertainment at gmail.com <mailto:nexisentertainment at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> And yet, it does restrict GPL distribution rights. We've been
> over this
> already. And I'd like to see where the FSF OKed it, the only
> thing I
> can turn up on Google is Richard Stallman not being too happy
> about it.
>
> I already changed the viewer I used to be working on to Luna,
> but both
> the GPL incompatabilities and this rather infuriating "cost/benefit"
> comment by Joe have resulted in me deciding that LL does not
> deserve any
> further OSS development work from me.
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 14:11 -0400, Ron Festa wrote:
> > Honestly I tried looking through my inbox to find out what your
> > concerns were and why no one else addressed them so forgive me
> if I
> > couldn't find them. The only problems I saw you had was
> compatibility
> > with the GPLv2 and the use of "Life" in your viewer name.
> >
> >
> > The issues with Section 7 were in fact addressed and took up
> most of
> > the meeting. Someone claimed they went as far as bringing the TPVP
> > before the FSF to verify if its GPLv2 compliant and sadly
> according to
> > them it is as its restricting a service not the code. Never
> the less
> > concerns were brought up and productive changes were suggested.
> >
> >
> > As for the branding this should be no argument. If in a court
> of law
> > they can make Lindows change their name to Linspire because
> Microsoft
> > owns *indows then LL can do the same with all the TPV's as
> stupid as
> > that is.
> >
> >
> > If these aren't your only concerns please share them so some
> of us can
> > deliver them by proxy for you since the time zone difference
> seems to
> > be the biggest problem for you.
> >
> >
> > Ron Festa
> > Virtual Worlds Admin
> > Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
> > PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
> > Phone: 732-474-8583
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Rob Nelson
> > <nexisentertainment at gmail.com
> <mailto:nexisentertainment at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > I decided to read the transcript and it did not
> address any of
> > my
> > concerns.
> >
> > [12:21][Voice Transcript] Joe Linden: we've ha a lot of
> > internal debate
> > around cost/benefit of OS
> >
> > ^ That was all I needed to hear. Debate's effectively
> over.
> >
> > On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 09:27 -0700, Joe Linden wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> > >
> > > -- Joe
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson
> > > <nexisentertainment at gmail.com
> <mailto:nexisentertainment at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > It's already reached a point where LL has
> told us,
> > to our
> > > faces, that
> > > they are not going to change the policy,
> meaning our
> > opinion
> > > doesn't
> > > mean diddly to them. There's no use
> continuing to
> > discussion,
> > > just as
> > > there's no use continuing TPV development.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan
> Irvin
> > wrote:
> > > > To Whom It May Concern:
> > > >
> > > > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this
> > inquiry due to
> > > the recent
> > > > influx of new topic related...or should I say
> > unrelated to
> > > the
> > > > development of the SnowGlobe viewer.
> Lately, when
> > I open my
> > > email, I
> > > > get 5-10 different topics and responses
> daily to
> > the recent
> > > changes
> > > > for the Third Party Viewer policy and I
> feel that
> > this is
> > > not related
> > > > to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> > > >
> > > > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these
> > discussions
> > > to a
> > > > different forum or list so valid OpenSource
> > development
> > > questions are
> > > > not lost in the flames, complaints, and
> > discussions related
> > > to this
> > > > specific topic?
> > > >
> > > > I do not feel it is valid in this forum to
> talk
> > about which
> > > > Third-Party Viewers in the directory were
> already
> > > impersonated or
> > > > which part of the third party viewer
> policy they
> > do not
> > > like.
> > > >
> > > > Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to
> > another
> > > forum, I bet
> > > > those who are truly interested in the
> opensource
> > development
> > > of the
> > > > Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to
> > staying here
> > > rather than
> > > > wake up to read yet another unproductive
> "I hate
> > LL and the
> > > TPVP lets
> > > > get together and share our misery post".
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully & Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Jonathan Irvin
> > > > SL Resident of 5 Years.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
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> > > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
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> >
> >
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> >
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>
>
>
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